new capitalism vs communism thread

[Az]

Wouldn't be a good idea unless you also changed the laws. Theft would be rampant, looting, etc. Youcouldn't do it within the context of an exisitng society wherein property is respected/upheld.

OR... it could be everyone's, and it would be shared. Looting is 'making your own'.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel
Skywalker: Remember my question from the other thread? How would you prevent the public agenda from being taken over by the private media? how would you prevent poverty, And what are the long term goals of your society?

First, a "social safety net" to keep people from going into poverty would be in place, but it would a) be minimal and b) be dependent on the person doing some sort of work for the government. It would basically be employment by the government, but it would be primarily a "public works" thing (road maintenence, etc). Of course, those who are truly unable to work wouldn't have to do this.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by JohnT
Uh... sure, Che. Tell that little girl and her parents in Sarasota that the right to life is so sancrosact that people don't kill random strangers "willy-nilly."

And this happens how often? From what I've read, the number of real child abuductions each year is around 50. Out of twenty million children? That's what, one out of every four hundred thousand? Murder is an extremely uncommon crime. If you're unlucky you might know one person in your life who gets murdered (unless you live in a very poor community). How many people do you know who've been robbed? Include yourself.

[Az]

you didn't answer all of my question? How would you prevent that policy from being changed? the upper classes will want it changed, to get tax breaks, for example.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Respecting rights. It's interesting that one of the first rights that people will disrespect is property. We don't see people murdering each other willy-nilly, nor raping each other, nor trying to keep each other from thinking what they will, but the right to property seems one we're very willing to violate. Cant be all that ingrained then.

JohnT put it better, but the reason murder doesn't happen that often is because a) killing a person is far more extreme than stealing a piece of bubble gum and b) the punishments are far harsher. Plus, there usually isn't much of an advantage to killing someone, whereas there is a definite advantage to theft. Also, I don't see how you can argue that rape doesn't happen that often and maintain consistency with your posts in all of the various feminism threads. Finally, the world is replete with examples of people trying to keep others from thinking what they will

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel
you didn't answer all of my question? How would you prevent that policy from being changed? the upper classes will want it changed, to get tax breaks, for example.

In your communism, if it's democratic, how will you prevent it from becoming capitalist or schmooist? My system is a democracy - it CAN change if the people want it to.

[Az]

In your communism, if it's democratic, how will you prevent it from becoming capitalist or schmooist?

A consititution.

My system is a democracy - it CAN change if the people want it to.

So let me get this straight, it will fight poverty, but only for a short while? And we all know that if corporate owned, the media will not have any problems making this story dissappear, while politicians will change it. This spin would be easy.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


And this happens how often? From what I've read, the number of real child abuductions each year is around 50. Out of twenty million children? That's what, one out of every four hundred thousand? Murder is an extremely uncommon crime. If you're unlucky you might know one person in your life who gets murdered (unless you live in a very poor community). How many people do you know who've been robbed? Include yourself.

Slippery slope. Using the old it happens all the time so we should legalize it logic.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Azazel
This has been a message from our resident spambot. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

I am constantly amuzed that the communists believe they are the only one's who have a right to define both capitalism and socialism. The arrogance of the left is something to behold.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Unfortunately we'ld like to think so.

But you underestmate the greed factor of the common stiff.

Interesting group exercise that has been done time and again and shown to be very repeatable.

Go to a class room, take someone's wallet or purse and place it in the front of the room. Announce to the class that this is property and we are going to decide on its disposition. Two options

a) we return it to the person or
b) we divide it equally amongst the class.

Which one do you think gets chosen?

Ogie, if you then extend the prinicple to everyone's wallet, every day, and the answer might be different.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel

In your communism, if it's democratic, how will you prevent it from becoming capitalist or schmooist?

A consititution.

But they can CHANGE the constitution - in my system, schmooism is also ingrained in the constitution, but it can be changed.

So let me get this straight, it will fight poverty, but only for a short while? And we all know that if corporate owned, the media will not have any problems making this story dissappear, while politicians will change it. This spin would be easy.

What is a "corporation"? They don't exist in schmooism - there is only a buyer and a seller (or more properly, just two parties to a contract).

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor
How could you guys take Ned's troll seriously?

Spiffor, man of ideas, are you afraid of the truth?

[JohnT]

Well Che, in 2002 there were 95,136 forcible rapes, 16,204 murders, and you Communists have quite an exciting history of forcing people from "thinking what they will", so I'm not too sure what your point is.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/offreported.html

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ned


I am constantly amuzed that the communists believe they are the only one's who have a right to define both capitalism and socialism. The arrogance of the left is something to behold.

Ned, if you're going to quote something, please make the post that follows it have SOMETHING to do with the quote you're beginning to sound like CBH (though without the run-ons).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by JohnT
Well Che, in 2002 there were 95,136 forcible rapes, 16,204 murders, and you Communists have quite an exciting history of forcing people from "thinking what they will", so I'm not too sure what your point is.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/...freported.html

And even more, you need to remember Che, that rape is the most unreported crime