Ethics and Piracy

[Japher]

Obviously ppl are not willing to pay $15, so they just download it off the net and burn it to a CD... How much are CDr? That is what they should charge.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Japher
Obviously ppl are not willing to pay $15, so they just download it off the net and burn it to a CD... How much are CDr? That is what they should charge.

Last I checked, the music industry was still selling tons of cds at 15 dollars, so apparently some people are still willing to pay that much.

and how does dropping the price to CDR recompense the artists and producers? Is the value of the album the value of a CDR, ie 20 cents? Ok, maybe for some albums, thats the value...

[Chaos_BF1942]

Originally posted by ADG
With all the bad games/songs/movies being released these days, I see piracy as something that protects the consumers of getting ripped off.

If it wasn't because of piracy I would probably have bought lots of crap. You know... games were you just install it, play it once, and then uninstall it again... or cd's which you've only played once...
Piracy helps those who makes good software/music. If it wasn't because I somehow "got" Civilization 1 back in the days, I would never have bought (or even known about) Civilzation...

It something called a demo, they are very usefuly, and legal. Also reading reveiws can help too.

Sure it helps you avoid crap games, but whats stops them from not buying the good games.



I don't see how piracy can be 'right', sure you may not have the money to buy the game, but so what? Get a job, wash cars, mow yards, sell your organs. But downloading the game is just as bad as going out to EB, CompUSA, ect and stealing it from the store.

Another thing remember how much time the makers spent making the games, if you don't buy the games they will lose their jobs.

[Whaleboy]

Does that mean you pirate music, or think it is acceptible for people to pirate music, simply because of the price of albums? If that's the case, maybe you should just try a little harder finding a cheaper store. Or does it only make it understandable?

Cheapest I can find is £8.99 for chart CD's. And no, as long as copying is cheaper than buying, I will copy (like get stuff from library and copy that before it goes back). I have made it clear that I have no logical/ethical problem with it, nor sympathy for the massive economic effect I have on the RIAA or BPI. Morality? I don't think it exists, I have mine, and am not breaching it. What would breach it is walking into HMV and stealing a CD. My distinction means I view the two as different. You have to attack that distinction, rather than referring to your own morality because that means nothing for me.

For you pro extortionates, this is your chance to assimilate me! I'm a free lunch guys!

[asleepathewheel]

If you don't think the value of something is worth the price charged, then why should you be able to get it instead for free?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Chaos_BF1942


It something called a demo, they are very usefuly, and legal. Also reading reveiws can help too.

I was just WAITING for someone to do this

Demos often are created middevelopment, or they are created with the intent purpose of making a crap game look good.
Reviews... I don't think I even need to comment on that.

Sure it helps you avoid crap games, but whats stops them from not buying the good games.

Nothing.

I don't see how piracy can be 'right', sure you may not have the money to buy the game, but so what? Get a job, wash cars, mow yards, sell your organs.

Impossible for me.
Get a job = Sick.
Wash cars = Ha!
Mow yards = Ha!
Sell organs = I doubt they'd take them.

But downloading the game is just as bad as going out to EB, CompUSA, ect and stealing it from the store.

When you download games....your supporting TERRORISM!

Another thing remember how much time the makers spent making the games, if you don't buy the games they will lose their jobs.

How much time they spend making the games....
Oh no! By pirating Deus Ex 2, I'm robbing the developers of all that hard effort they put into making it....

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Cheapest I can find is £8.99 for chart CD's. And no, as long as copying is cheaper than buying, I will copy (like get stuff from library and copy that before it goes back). I have made it clear that I have no logical/ethical problem with it, nor sympathy for the massive economic effect I have on the RIAA or BPI. Morality? I don't think it exists, I have mine, and am not breaching it. What would breach it is walking into HMV and stealing a CD. My distinction means I view the two as different. You have to attack that distinction, rather than referring to your own morality because that means nothing for me.

For you pro extortionates, this is your chance to assimilate me! I'm a free lunch guys!

Why do you view taking a physical cd and downloading the same information to be different things? It seems to me to be merely a technically different way to the same ends, mainly getting something that you want without recompensing someone for their work. how do you see that? Do you value other people's work? Enough to download their work, but not pay them?

[Nubclear]

If I value the people behind the game, I will pay for it.
If not...Too bad. They should make better games

[monkspider]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


what is the argument?

It should be mostly self-evident. If you are able to share something with someone else, but refuse to do so, then that is not the right thing to do.

If you are have bread, and refuse to share it with those who ask for it, then that is immoral. Likewise, refusing to share Mp3 files, files which could potentially bring great happiness to others, when you have the means to do so, is also immoral.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by monkspider


It should be mostly self-evident. If you are able to share something with someone else, but refuse to do so, then that is not the right thing to do.

If you are have bread, and refuse to share it with those who ask for it, then that is immoral. Likewise, refusing to share Mp3 files, files which could potentially bring great happiness to others, when you have the means to do so is also immoral.

I love you monkspider

/me did I say that outloud?

[Japher]

Artist have spoken out about this issue stating that the royalties from albums hardly puts a dent in the large amount of money they already make. They would rather everyone have the same access to their music to encourage more people to come to their concerts, where they really rake it in.

asleepathewheel; you make the argument that why should you get it for free if you don't like the price. Why pay the price if it is available for free?

Don't just say that it's against the law, we know that. Yet, why? Why is that the RIAA can and should continue to recorded music when the recordings are available for free? Granted producers and recorders will and do suffer, but they can still produce and record albums they will just have to learn the new medium.

This is much like the dock workers who always complain that computers are taking over their job. Now, computers are taking over the job of information transfer and the RIAA got screwed. UPS and FEDEX threatened the USPS, the e-mail... The USPS still employs tons of people and makes money for doing so... Why, because they were able to adapt to the times.

I do not condone breaking the law, but I do condone changing that law when the times do not allow for it to be sustained... even for the sake of one industry.

Technology showed that cigarettes causes cancer. Who did those cig companies sue? No one, they were sued.

Technology has destroyed a lot of companies and has changed a lot of industries, and if one can not bend they will break... It ain't about the law, or morality, or something for nothing, it's about progression and change.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


I love you monkspider

* asleepathewheel did I say that outloud?

Awww, ditto Sleepy.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

Oh no! By pirating Deus Ex 2, I'm robbing the developers of all that hard effort they put into making it....

Now that's hardly fair.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Japher
asleepathewheel; you make the argument that why should you get it for free if you don't like the price. Why pay the price if it is available for free?

Because you shouldn't get the benefits of someone's work for free, unless that person wishes their work to be free. Call me crazy, but I value and respect others' work.

Originally posted by Japher
I do not condone breaking the law, but I do condone changing that law when the times do not allow for it to be sustained... even for the sake of one industry.

This is not the place for a law change, its a place for industry to change the way it operates. There must be something in place legally to protect one's intellectual property. I just don't see how you could maintain the level of quality of some work (not all ) if you don't protect it. It is industry that must adapt, not the laws, as the laws are never perfect enough for the task and become antiquated rapidly.

[Whaleboy]

I am a writer. I write for a variety of folks, in a variety of genres and for a variety of purposes. This resource, my creativity is not infinite. Though what I write may be distributed to everyone, the resource is not infinite.

Very true, but it is not being diminished by others. I don't feel sapped when other people read my work, I feel rather happy at that! If my book is published, I'll put a version up on the internet! I'm just a nice guy.

Why do you view taking a physical cd and downloading the same information to be different things? It seems to me to be merely a technically different way to the same ends, mainly getting something that you want without recompensing someone for their work. how do you see that? Do you value other people's work? Enough to download their work, but not pay them?

I differentiate between material (the actual cd which I won't steal), and the information on it, which is abstract that I will copy. I believe an infinite resource like information or knowledge cannot be paid for, an exchange of resources for an infinite resource seems a perversion on the notion of capitalism.