Should Europe Go To War With America?

[GePap]

Originally posted by yavoon


thats the SURPLUS not the total trade.

omg u should be fired from life.

Yes, I got that, and the great failing of your mind (well, besides obviously failing charm school) is that even if that is the difference, the CIA says the US has an economy of 10 trillion, China of 5 trillion, so no, China would not go crashing if it lost US-China trade anyomre than the US would from loosing that trade, including the 52 billion dolar difference.

Now, grow up, read what people say, and have a nice day

[PLATO]

Originally posted by GePap


have a nice day

I miss panag.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by GePap


Yes, I got that, and the great failing of your mind (well, besides obviously failing charm school) is that even if that is the difference, the CIA says the US has an economy of 10 trillion, China of 5 trillion, so no, China would not go crashing if it lost US-China trade anyomre than the US would from loosing that trade, including the 52 billion dolar difference.

Now, grow up, read what people say, and have a nice day

grow up? who's the cockhanger here? I think that'd be u.

and china's 2003 gdp was 1.3 trillion. thats a lil below 5 for those of us mathematically uninclined.

and I'm not talking about china becoming backward and having 50% unemployment. tho obviously u will do ur best to imply that.

but sure u can go ask China if it wants to lose the trade w/ the US. see if it thinks that its important or not.

[Zero]

Basically...

aMeRiCa PwNz j00!!!!!!11!!!
USA!!! 111 USA!!!1!!! USA!!!!1!!!! USA!!!1!!!!!

Come on guys lets sing the national anthem!~

[Spiffor]

I don't get how anybody could get its pants in a twist in this thread

Even if there was some remote seriousness in this troll, any losing side would send its nukes, and everybody would end up glowing in the dark.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
and china's 2003 gdp was 1.3 trillion. thats a lil below 5 for those of us mathematically uninclined.

China's PPP GNP was 5 billion. When you're measuring the value of the production, I'd believe that's what counts. The absolute value of China's production (your figure) is way inferior to normal because of the artificial low change of the Yuan.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

China's PPP GNP was 5 billion. When you're measuring the value of the production, I'd believe that's what counts. The absolute value of China's production (your figure) is way inferior to normal because of the artificial low change of the Yuan.

ok I have to go.

china has also has 400 billion in its reserve and the US has been the #1 investor in china the last 3 years.

[joncha]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I don't get how anybody could get its pants in a twist in this thread

Even if there was some remote seriousness in this troll, any losing side would send its nukes, and everybody would end up glowing in the dark.

I don't know... in Red Dawn they didn't, cuz it was on US soil and the Russians and, erm, Nicaraguans (ooh, scary), uh, didn't want to.

jon.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
china has also has 400 billion in its reserve

Yep. The Bank of China buys dollars like there is no tomorrow because this is the only direct way it has to slow down the relative fall of the dollar, that will end up hurting China's competitiveness.

and the US has been the #1 investor in china the last 3 years.

Yes. Since you have the most powerful national economy in the world, it's hardly a surprise. What exactly is your point here?

[Xeones]

as an american, i am all for it. it is obvious to me that my fellow citizens are too deluded to ever free themselves of tyrannical leadership, so i would welcome a foreign power to stop the madness...

and you forgot among your justifications ... it would be "preemptive self-defense"! after all america has weapons, so theyre obviously a grave and gathering danger to europe. it would be just as 'right' as our invasion.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by yavoon


thats the SURPLUS not the total trade.

omg u should be fired from life.

the surplus is closer to 100 billion, and thats actually quite close to the total trade number since they don't actually buy anything from us.

[el freako]

Originally posted by yavoon
who's the cockhanger here? I think that'd be u.

Bloody hell, it's wonderful to see GePap get you foaming at the mouth like that

Originally posted by yavoon
and china's 2003 gdp was 1.3 trillion. thats a lil below 5 for those of us mathematically uninclined.

I will give you a remedial lession in the international comparison of economies.
Purchasing power parities (which is where the $5trn figure comes from) are an attempt to equalize the price levels across economies - if you've been to mexico surely you noticed that things tended to be cheaper there, that is because of an undervalued currency.
As a general rule the poorer the country the more undervalued it's currency (as less of it's 'economy' is linked into the capitalist international economy).
No one is suggesting that the Yuan is not massively undervalued - indeed if the Chinese lifted the peg by 25% would that really make the average chinese 25% richer?

BTW China's GDP last year (when converted using exchange rates) was $1.6trn, $1.4trn in the 'mainland' and $0.2trn from Hong Kong and Macao.
So even the figures you are quoting are wrong

Originally posted by yavoon
but sure u can go ask China if it wants to lose the trade w/ the US. see if it thinks that its important or not.

Well would the US like to lose it's trade with china? I think not either. (and if you think it would make the US $52bn a year better off you are really showing your economic ignorance)
In fact the Chinese government has the US a bit over a barrel as it is the BOC's support (along with the BOJ) that is keeping the dollar from collapse - such a collapse would mean that Americans would have to start living within their means again (instead of spending $105 for every $100 they make) which would lead to a very nasty recession in the US (not as bad as Argentina's but probably equivalent to the 1981-82 recession).

[Whoha]

And for the nuclear exchange, we are slowly creeping up BMD stuff. we had 5 out of 8 successes in the last 2 or so years, and will start deploying the integrated system for tracking icbms around 2005-2006. So in the event we go to such a war I'd expect interceptor production to ramp up.

However, such a war is highly unlikely, as the Europeans aren't that unified.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by el freako


Bloody hell, it's wonderful to see GePap get you foaming at the mouth like that






I will give you a remedial lession in the international comparison of economies.
Purchasing power parities (which is where the $5trn figure comes from) are an attempt to equalize the price levels across economies - if you've been to mexico surely you noticed that things tended to be cheaper there, that is because of an undervalued currency.
As a general rule the poorer the country the more undervalued it's currency (as less of it's 'economy' is linked into the capitalist international economy).
No one is suggesting that the Yuan is not massively undervalued - indeed if the Chinese lifted the peg by 25% would that really make the average chinese 25% richer?

BTW China's GDP last year (when converted using exchange rates) was $1.6trn, $1.4trn in the 'mainland' and $0.2trn from Hong Kong and Macao.
So even the figures you are quoting are wrong




Well would the US like to lose it's trade with china? I think not either. (and if you think it would make the US $52bn a year better off you are really showing your economic ignorance)
In fact the Chinese government has the US a bit over a barrel as it is the BOC's support (along with the BOJ) that is keeping the dollar from collapse - such a collapse would mean that Americans would have to start living within their means again (instead of spending $105 for every $100 they make) which would lead to a very nasty recession in the US (not as bad as Argentina's but probably equivalent to the 1981-82 recession).

as we talked about in the other thread, if China makes the slightest hint of a move towards liquidating all of its Dollars/US debt, so will everyone else. There is about 1 Trillion in US debt and probably a comparable numberi n dollar hoards outstanding, it would be mutual suicide to do so if they are acting from a purely economic perspective, if they are not however, then they would pile on as Europe attacked us.

Also if other countries stopped buying our debt it would pretty much mean an end to non-discretionary spending, unless anyone here thinks anyone can be elected on a "raise taxes by 1 trillion dollars" platform. Right now more US debt is in the US but that will change over time.

[Patroklos]

But like you said we have world wide power, not to mention incontravertable naval superiority. What do you plan on building your weapons with, or for that matter feeding your people?

It takes an average of 7-12 years to design a military aircraft. 3 years to build an aircraft carrier (not sure what you would put on it though) and 1.2 to train the average Western grunt. You'd be building up for a very long time.

Meanwhile the war would be over in less than a year. It is not feasable for a war of that scale using modern weapons to last more than that.

Of course we don't actually have to invade, just outflank France so they feel hopeless and surrender (as someone else said).