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Brit Liberal MP in PLENTY hot water -
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Originally posted by Park Avenue
This what you tend to get with some female MPs: loose cannons. Witness Clare Short as well. Add Lib Dem into the mix and it makes it doubly explosive.
Good to know people here aren't prejudiced. It's not like any male MP's do anything wrong
So tell me why it's justified from the Israeli viewpoint to continue to keep an entire people under their heel in the name of "security"? Out, now, apologise completely and absolutely no compromise whatsoever.
Or seeing the effects of the PA's policies, from an alternative point of view.
I don't think that is what your average future suicide bomber is going to be thinking when they see their friends being bombed.
so if this eminent MP had been brought up in a right wing orthodox Israeli family she might have become a settler, and if as a settler she had seen friend and relatives murdered, she might have become an anti-arab racist, an advocate of the expulsion of the Palestinians, or worse. Did she mention that in her speech??? Obviously the statement was more than a though exercise to prove that all human actions have causes - it was an attempt to show sympathy for the perpetrators of certain actions, and to implicity excuse them, in whole or in part.
She was speaking at a pro-Palestine lobby and is sympathetic to their cause. Its understandable she is going to make a speech the crowd is receptive to.
Her only fault is that she did not issue the standard disclaimer in force, despite the fact it should be automatically implied that any correct thinking person would not condone these acts.
Ever get so wound up by someone that you want to hit them? I know I do. Your logic says that because I can identify with the desire to do something wrong, I must secretly think it is ok to punch people. I am not identifying with the perpetrator, but with the desire.
Ever get so wound up by someone that you want to hit them? I know I do. Your logic says that because I can identify with the desire to do something wrong, I must secretly think it is ok to punch people. I am not identifying with the perpetrator, but with the desire.
Its wrong, but excusable. And the lib dems had to make a choice about whether someone who thought terrorism of this kind was wrong, but excusable, was someone they wanted in a position of leadership.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
So tell me why it's justified from the Israeli viewpoint to continue to keep an entire people under their heel in the name of "security"? Out, now, apologise completely and absolutely no compromise whatsoever.
they dont want to keep a people under their heel.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
I don't think that is what your average future suicide bomber is going to be thinking when they see their friends being bombed.
i thought we were talking about what an english MP had learned when going to Gaza. It was claimed she saw the effects of Israels policies. I think its just as valid to say she saw the effects of the PA's policies.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Buck - have you heard this great song by Monty Python "How Sweet, to be an Idiot"? You should add it to your play list.
Having assumed everything you want to assume about the Israeli public and leaders based on propoganda, you are now fully qualified to be a suicide bomber
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Obviously I can also understand how a kid can become a suicide bomer.
But I feel rather sad that only part of the reasons are represented.
For instance, the cermons on national TV calling for suicide bombing is not mentioned. Arafat's calls for millions of shahids (martyrs) at the gates of Jerusalem. The palestinian school books which have problems in the spirit of "how much are 8 jews + 12 jews?" and the hamas propoganda that reigns freely under the watching eye of Arafat, in every education place, from elementary school to universities.
But surely the main reason is that they're suppressed/oppressed and the propaganda is going to be anti isreali and calling for martyrs until until there is a 'free' palestinian homeland ? Normal military force or voting isn't going to work ?
And that's a question and not an opinion before someone takes offence.
I do agree though that the sacking of the lib dem was a bit extreme especially considering the wide variety of ideas and views the LIb Dems normally have in the party.
propaganda against a particular group does not need any basis in reality to become widespread and successful.
“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
She said she might just think about it in their conditions, as in she can understand the reasons why they would do it, but that she thinks it's wrong. I agree with her. I can understand why they would want to. I don't support it, but then I don't support Israel's occupation either.
I see nothing wrong with her statement. In fact I've said similar.
they dont want to keep a people under their heel.
Well they've sure fooled me then .
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Its wrong, but excusable. And the lib dems had to make a choice about whether someone who thought terrorism of this kind was wrong, but excusable, was someone they wanted in a position of leadership.
You make her out to be some strange hybrid peace loving death monger. Mass murder is never excusable, and unless she truly is a fruit cake, then this should be implied. understanding/identifying with an emotion does not = excusing it.
i thought we were talking about what an english MP had learned when going to Gaza. It was claimed she saw the effects of Israels policies. I think its just as valid to say she saw the effects of the PA's policies.
Not in this case. The violence she was caught in was not a product of the PA. As far as I can tell, Hamas militants ambushed Israeli soldiers. Israel retaliated by calling in helicopters to strike the car of Hamas leader Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi. Only they wounded some 25 innocent Palestinians as well. Thats Israel turning to terrorism in reponse to a purely military attack. The violence then escalated into suicide bombings, but it is quite arguable that Israel forced the escalation in this case.
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