I think Boeing has lost it

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Speak at past tense, and you have a point. French cars are currently among the best in the medium-quality product range. Besides, there is no more possible protectionism with our European partners, since tarriff and non-tarriff barriers get decided by... the EU, not the French gov.

So, if our cars sucked that much, German or Italian cars would have flooded our markets (and the rest of the European one) for a long time. It has not. Care to explain?

u also don't let walmart in. and walmart would obviously destroy ur large chain stores.

Our large chain stores are strong, and the issue of the battle would be unpredictable. If I may recall you, our chain stores have huge assets abroad, competing with Walmart. Care to explain how they can possibly survive, with Walmart being that much better?


Thank you for your hinsight and your deep knowledge of the French economy. You manage to reach the science of Lancer or TCO

the french counterpart is in no1 anywhere near as successful as walmart. the result of direct competition would not be in doubt. tho certainly instant monopoly would not ensue, it would not be a fight for who had more market share.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I doubt it as well. As long as the competition remains amon a few actors (Boeing, Airbus, and maybe an emerging 'third company' in the future), none is likely to bite the dust. Since strategical concerns are a reality in the aviation business, it is likely these companies will have their survival "helped" when in danger, and they'll have a technological / comlmercial lead on their roughly equal competitors for some period.

oh good we can both drag our economies down w/ inefficient subsidizing and poor allocation.

this is wonderful. what a great gift the french have given us by usurping competition.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by paiktis22
somebody screwed up and let radioschak or whats its name in. thankfully it cant compete with germanos multimedia or any other number of large greek electronic sales and will withdraw quickly. plus they are astounishly stupid. i went to buy some rechargable bateries and the socket on the charger was american

hello?!

good then they will lose money. thats the point. to weed out the poor competitors. not to prop them up like the french do.

see americans are better, we dont roll in and save radioshack.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by paiktis22
the only orders it can hope to get is from countries which can bebullied by the US gov. luckily those are fewer and fewer. and now TARAM there's the alternative! Airbus: cheaper, better and US free

airbus is not cheaper. infact it is more expensive.

it is subsidized though so the taxpayers and not the consumers bear some of the cost.

[Mazarin]

yavoon,
wal mart has entered the German market a couple of years ago and has been facing severe problems from the beginning: Markets tend to work differently in different cultures -if a concept is successfull in one country doesn't mean it will be working in another.
As to French industries: French car have excellent security ratings, they are more innovative in design and are usually cheaper than German cars here -this is why they have been gaining market shares all over Europe. Industry subsidies are only legal in very few circumstances, btw: the European Comission is often critisized for its harsh enforcement of the rules.

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by yavoon
airbus is not cheaper. infact it is more expensive.

it is subsidized though so the taxpayers and not the consumers bear some of the cost.

care to back up your claims with some facts?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Mazarin

care to back up your claims with some facts?

well they were given 4 billion to develop the new super jumbo jet. given.

"Airbus partner governments have borne 75 to 100 percent of the development costs for all major lines of Airbus aircraft and provided other forms of support, including equity infusions, debt forgiveness, debt rollovers and marketing assistance,"

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Mazarin
yavoon,
wal mart has entered the German market a couple of years ago and has been facing severe problems from the beginning: Markets tend to work differently in different cultures -if a concept is successfull in one country doesn't mean it will be working in another.
As to French industries: French car have excellent security ratings, they are more innovative in design and are usually cheaper than German cars here -this is why they have been gaining market shares all over Europe. Industry subsidies are only legal in very few circumstances, btw: the European Comission is often critisized for its harsh enforcement of the rules.

and yet the french still can't export them to the largest car market in the world. if ur so uber competitive then there is a crapload of money to be made in the US. oh can't compete here? too bad.

[DanS]

In any event, Boeing has to operate profitably in an environment of European government subsidies to Airbus. I think it can do this. If the Europeans want to waste their money on subsidies, then that's their problem.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by DanS
In any event, Boeing has to operate profitably in an environment of European government subsidies to Airbus. I think it can do this.

depends on how long and how large the subsidies are.

its likely that the US gov't will have to save boeing at the current rate.

remember tho that airbus has been subsidized for almost 40 years now. this is not just building a competitor than letting them go. this is longterm commitment to propping up an uncompetitive airline.

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by yavoon
well they were given 4 billion to develop the new super jumbo jet. given.

"Airbus partner governments have borne 75 to 100 percent of the development costs for all major lines of Airbus aircraft and provided other forms of support, including equity infusions, debt forgiveness, debt rollovers and marketing assistance,"

this would be a violation of a 1992 EU-US agreement. If Boeing has any proves to these claims, it should have gone to court. EADS is a privately owned company today, so it can be monitored much more closely than Airbus used to be 20 years ago when subsidies were very common.

and yet the french still can't export them to the largest car market in the world. if ur so uber competitive then there is a crapload of money to be made in the US. oh can't compete here? too bad.

US cars aren't very competitive on European market either...different markets have different dynamics

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Mazarin

this would be a violation of a 1992 EU-US agreement. If Boeing has any proves to these claims, it should have gone to court. EADS is a privately owned company today, so it can be monitored much more closely than Airbus used to be 20 years ago when subsidies were very common.


US cars aren't very competitive on European market either...different markets have different dynamics

european markets have traditionally been closed. also its important to realize whats european and whats american. afterall the french own nissan and ford owns jaguar. so american companies might actually be doing good in europe, u just didnt know they were american.


and they are in violation of the EU-US agreement. and the US has been threataning retaliatory tarriffs for nearly 20 years. the EU just doesn't care. this isnt civil court where if u can prove it u win. this is international.

oh yes ford also owns volvo

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
the french counterpart is in no1 anywhere near as successful as walmart. the result of direct competition would not be in doubt. tho certainly instant monopoly would not ensue, it would not be a fight for who had more market share.

I won't bet on it.
I've seen Walmarts in Germany (meaning that they are allowed to exist there), yet I haven't seen them threaten the dominance of Lidl or Aldi, despite these stores being vastly inferior in size and choice to any Yank or French store.
For the matter, I have seen only one Wal-mart (near Kaiserslautern), and none near Stuttgart, which is an important city. Either Wal-mart is experiencing in Germany, or simply the German public doesn't like it. But such an idea is obviously preposterous.

And thanks for doging the issue of French cars. I suppose that's because you have no argument anymore, and just try to weasel out of your ignorance

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I won't bet on it.
I've seen Walmarts in Germany (meaning that they are allowed to exist there), yet I haven't seen them threaten the dominance of Lidl or Aldi, despite these stores being vastly inferior in size and choice to any Yank or French store.
For the matter, I have seen only one Wal-mart (near Kaiserslautern), and none near Stuttgart, which is an important city. Either Wal-mart is experiencing in Germany, or simply the German public doesn't like it. But such an idea is obviously preposterous.

And thanks for doging the issue of French cars. I suppose that's because you have no argument anymore, and just try to weasel out of your ignorance

dodging the issue that france protected its cars forever and now u think is somewhat more competitive but still can not export to the largest car market in the world?

funny didnt look like a dodge to me.

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by yavoon
european markets have traditionally been closed. also its important to realize whats european and whats american. afterall the french own nissan and ford owns jaguar. so american companies might actually be doing good in europe, u just didnt know they were american.

The point is that cars that are successful in Europe are not developped or produced in the U.S. I'd never claim Chrysler to be German just because it belongs to a German company. Same goes for Ford Europe, Opel or Jaguar...they have very different models than their US based owners.