Bush 'planned Iraq war pre-9/11'

[Agathon]

Once again Bush is revealed as a total cretin.

One day it might come out that Bush knew all about 9/11 and let it happen so as to insure his re-election.

Improbable? Yes.

But if it ever happened you could be be 100% certain that all the usual suspects would be on here defending Bush to the hilt for his vision and "political savvy" and attempting to pin the blame on Clinton.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by NeOmega

American World Domination is in their minds justified, because America is so darn good.

The sooner the American right are cured of this ridiculous fantasy, the better for humanity. The US simply can't afford the diplomatic, political and economic costs of such an insane scheme.

They really should quit while they're ahead, or there'll be tears before bedtime.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Agathon
Once again Bush is revealed as a total cretin.

How so?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DaShi

How so?

They seem to have said or implied the following sequentially over the last year and a half.

1. The people who believe in the PNAC stuff are conspiracy whackos.

2. This is a war about enforcing UN resolutions!

3. (after acting in defiance of the UN). This is about ridding Iraq of WMDs!

4. (no WMDS) After 9/11 this is about protecting America from terrorists!!

5. (no connection between Al Quaeda and Sadddam). This is about installing democracy to prevent terrorism!!!!

Then O'Neill spills the beans. The only plan on the table when Bush took over was the PNAC one or one of its variants - and that was when all this crap started - before 9/11 and before the war on terror.

Bush is a cretin because his excuses have fallen apart again.

Chalk up another win for the left.

[The Andy-Man]

Agathon, it is very hard for a country to quit while it is ahead, they usually have a tendancy to keep on trying, even when they are about as significant as Belgium

[Agathon]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
Agathon, it is very hard for a country to quit while it is ahead, they usually have a tendancy to keep on trying, even when they are about as significant as Belgium

Well it may be hard, but the fall will be greater. Bush is painting the US into a corner. When my grandparents, who are both long time Thatcherites, start sounding like Noam Chomsky, you know that anti-Bushism is now in play as a political platform.

I mean, it's weird. People I've known all my life as conservatives are now sincerely using terms like "Imperialism" in everyday conversation.

At the moment Bush is playing a game of snakes and ladders in which most of the ladders have been removed. People in the US won't notice, but almost everyone else is as pissed as hell and will do their best to make things difficult.

[KrazyHorse]

I mentioned it before, but my parents (the most apolitical people in the world) now constantly grouse about Bush.

I feel so proud of them.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I mentioned it before, but my parents (the most apolitical people in the world) now constantly grouse about Bush.

I feel so proud of them.

Do they Chomsky?

My grandfather honestly spoke (loudly) along these lines.

You aren't for that war, are you? It's an outrage... Do they really think we don't know what all this is about? Oil and money! That pack of despicable liars... The US is the biggest enemy of democracy and danger to world peace... I hope Blair gets the boot!! etc. etc.

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Agathon


Well it may be hard, but the fall will be greater. Bush is painting the US into a corner. When my grandparents, who are both long time Thatcherites, start sounding like Noam Chomsky, you know that anti-Bushism is now in play as a political platform.

I mean, it's weird. People I've known all my life as conservatives are now sincerely using terms like "Imperialism" in everyday conversation.

At the moment Bush is playing a game of snakes and ladders in which most of the ladders have been removed. People in the US won't notice, but almost everyone else is as pissed as hell and will do their best to make things difficult.

I am more inclined to think that htis all means bush is offending even right wing opinion, though i wouildn't blame him for the US decline and its inevitable reaction to this decline. If history means anything, no matter who is in charge nothing will change.

[The Andy-Man]

[quote[Do they really think we don't know what all this is about? Oil and money![/quote]

I know a few poeple omn the right saying this aswell

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Agathon


Do they Chomsky?

My grandfather honestly spoke (loudly) along these lines.

They're more on: "I can't stand that little monkey. They think they can go around invading anyone they want. I wonder if he cares how many people he kills"

[Agathon]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man


I am more inclined to think that htis all means bush is offending even right wing opinion, though i wouildn't blame him for the US decline and its inevitable reaction to this decline. If history means anything, no matter who is in charge nothing will change.

I'll recommend an excellent book that IMHO everyone should read. It's called Rogue Nation by Clyde Prestowitz. Prestowitz is a dyed in the wool conservative who worked for the Reagan administration. In short his Tory credentials are about as good as they get. Yet reading his book I found myself nodding at almost every page. It's all just common sense really. It confirmed my thinking that everyone with a modicum of rationality should oppose US unilateralism, Americans included.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465062792/qid=1074002558//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/102-8925657-0940121?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Agathon]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


They're more on: "I can't stand that little monkey. They think they can go around invading anyone they want. I wonder if he cares how many people he kills"

He does look like a monkey, though. And he stoops. Never trust a stooper!!!

[Agathon]

Here's a quote from the conclusion of that book

"The imperial project of the so-called neoconservatives is not conservatism at all but radicalism, egotism and adventuratism articulated in the stirring rhetoric of traditonal patriotism. Real conservatives have never been messianic or doctrinal. The very essense of conservatism, which the neoconservatives constantly preach, is limited government. Yet the imperial projects they are proposing will greatly increase the role of government, both at home and abroad ... This is not conservatism. It is Big Government.

Having said that the previous couple of hundred pages is well argued and attempts to appeal to the better natures of both sides.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap
I mean, Bush has said that he doesn;t read newspapers, and that he gets all his information from purely objective sources, his advisors. I mean, come on!

So, the description of a Blind man in a room full of deaf people is pretty good.

I stopped using the news as sources of info (other than the event itself although even that can be questionable) in the early 80's. It was amazing to watch the reporting - counter reporting - spin - counterspin on events where I knew what had happened (since I had access to other sources). Nothing is objective. The only reason to read the news is to gauge what others are thinking about the event and usually you can predict what they will say anyway.