Fantasy Baseball Discussion

[Soul Survivor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I think in this age of specialized relievers, HOLDS are a very important part of the game and do clearly indicate just how worthy a pitcher is to a team.

But you have to admit... it's kind of a bull**** stat (then again, so are saves) .

yeah getting rid of saves would definitely make things interesting....

[Berzerker]

Berz position limits are each position gets 162 starts, that allows for everyday lineup changes, but you can't go over on the position games.

Oh yeah, I was in a couple leagues that allowed stats up to 162 games. It looks like the votes are running in favor of weekly changes so maybe we can get a 2nd league going with daily changes. I'd like to play both... Some of the FFZ people haven't posted yet and they played daily changes so maybe they'll promote a 2nd league for poly...

LoA, that was 12 k's to 4 bb's, but yes, 9-0 is infinity but the stats don't care about an individual's performance, just the total for the week. So 9 kk's and 0 bb's would be added to the rest of the stats and the final numbers would be the basis for the calculation. I remember paying close attention to these kind of stats and never saw a mistake where a pitcher who went 9-0 or something like it wasn't counted in the overall stats.

Imran -

Hits
Runs
HR
RBI
SB
TB
OBP
SLG
OPS

Wins
Losses
Saves
ERA
K's
BB's
Hits Allowed
WHIP

is my list so far then (you'll notice no BA... I just had it there as a placeholder... OBP is much more important and basically similar anyway).

I wouldn't mind BA and OBP, hits don't account for walks and OBP does so OBP has merit. Hits are kind of duplicated by BA and TB but BA and TB are so important for an overall performance. I guess when we have ~duplicate stats we merely place more emphasis on the stats included by the overlap but IMO some stats are more imprtant that others and deserve overlap.

I agree with war, TB and HRs are a must even though the first covers the second. If stolen bases get a category, and it should, then let's keep the most exciting hit of all.

hits
runs
HR
RBI
BA
SB
TB
OBS or walks
OPS or slugging
That's 9 (with room for 1 more?)

wins
losses
saves
holds (I still think we need an incentive for middle relievers)
era
K's
BB's
whip or hits allowed

That's 8 (with room for 1 more?)

17 or 19?

How about 21-22 roster slots? I don't know if Imran wants us to vote on all of this stuff or not. As I recall we can start drafting offline in mid February so we have a month to get all these details ironed out.

Would everyone post their final preferences and I'll make up a list of commonalities so we can vote on what to add? Thx

[Vlad Antlerkov]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Berzerker

I agree with war, TB and HRs are a must even though the first covers the second. If stolen bases get a category, and it should, then let's keep the most exciting hit of all.

Are you suggesting recording triples?

And since you asked for my final preferences:

Hitting: H, R, RBI, HR, SB, TB, BA, OBP, SLG
Pitching: W, L, SV, Holds, ERA, K, K/BB, WHIP, and either Game Score or Quality Starts.

Position Players: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, CF, OF, OF, Util
Pitchers: SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, RP
Max # of players: 22

Roster changes: Weekly
League format: No preference between Rotisserie and Head-to-Head.

[Berzerker]

whats game score or quality starts? And thx for posting final prefs...

[Zero]

weekly roster change sounds fine. But if we're gonna do daily stick wit it. dont change it after we do the draft. I think last year that affected my team alot.

I'd rather do daily roster change though. For those who think thats crazy management, you can queue up your roster changes ya know.... (i hate when players get injured on day after roster change...)

I think we should decide what type of game to play before talking about stats. Talk about what stat to add isnt helpful if you're proposing to add triple as stat and then we end up playing h2h.....

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Zero
I think we should decide what type of game to play before talking about stats. Talk about what stat to add isnt helpful if you're proposing to add triple as stat and then we end up playing h2h.....

I prefer head-to-head.... and yeah, triples would be pretty meaningless then.

My "final" preferences:

Hitting: H, R, RBI, HR, SB, TB, BA, OBP, OPS
Pitching: W, L, SV, Holds, ERA, K, W, Hits, WHIP

Position Players: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, CF, OF, OF, Util
Pitchers: SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, P
Max # of players: 21

[Zero]

I propose having one less batting stats than pitching stats.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

This just in (since I've already had the two post per day maximum) -

Roger Clemens comes out of retirement and signs with the Houston Astros.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
This just in (since I've already had the two post per day maximum) -

Roger Clemens comes out of retirement and signs with the Houston Astros.

for 5 mil? What a steal for the stros. Should give the cubs (and boy do I hate to say that) some competition for the NL central.

[Stuie]

Cool. Can't wait to watch him bat vs. the Mets.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I wouldn't mind BA and OBP, hits don't account for walks and OBP does so OBP has merit. Hits are kind of duplicated by BA and TB but BA and TB are so important for an overall performance. I guess when we have ~duplicate stats we merely place more emphasis on the stats included by the overlap but IMO some stats are more imprtant that others and deserve overlap.

OBP is basically BA including walks (and thus Plate Appearances instead of At Bats). They are very similar, so I wouldn't mind junking BA and going with OBP.

Of course if we go with OBP and SLG, I don't think OPS is needed at all (very, very redundant.. at least with the others there is something different).

HRs are 'sexy', so they can be included with TB. BA has become less and less sexy with Bill James and SABRmetrics (the type of stuff I like ).

I wish there was a 'Win Shares' calculation... I'd throw it right in there .

And since you asked for my final preferences:

Hitting: H, R, RBI, HR, SB, TB, BA, OBP, SLG
Pitching: W, L, SV, Holds, ERA, K, K/BB, WHIP, and either Game Score or Quality Starts.

Position Players: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, CF, OF, OF, Util
Pitchers: SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, RP
Max # of players: 22

Roster changes: Weekly
League format: No preference between Rotisserie and Head-to-Head.

Me likey, but instead of k/BB, I'd put a regular BB stat (lower the better, of course ) and end it at WHIP (don't need another stat). I wish that I could make you guys pick ONE MR though.. if we are doing holds that would be fun . 22 or 21 roster spots, it doesn't bother me.

And I think we like head to head, but rotiss doesn't bother me neither.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Roger Clemens comes out of retirement and signs with the Houston Astros.

BAH, that isn't even the biggest news of the week so far.

Vlad signs with Angels

ANAHEIM, Calif. -- Welcome to Hollywood, Vladimir Guerrero.

In another bold offseason move, the Anaheim Angels landed the biggest star on the free-agent market when they reached agreement with Guerrero, one of baseball's most talented players.

Anaheim did not disclose terms of the contract, which was to be completed as long as the All-Star outfielder passes a physical.

"Guerrero is coming into L.A., and will be undergoing a physical," Angels general manager Bill Stoneman said Sunday. "We've got a deal contingent on the physical."

Several reports said Guerrero will get a $70 million, five-year contract. He is expected in Los Angeles on Monday, Stoneman said.

A .323 career hitter, Guerrero averaged 37 homers for the Montreal Expos the past six years. He also possesses speed on the bases and one of the game's strongest arms in right field.

The four-time All-Star, who turns 28 next month, was on the disabled list from June 6 to July 21 last season, missing 39 games because of a herniated disc in his back. But he played in 62 of Montreal's final 64 games and finished the year with a .330 batting average, 25 homers and 79 RBI in 112 games.

A native of the Dominican Republic, Guerrero had not played in fewer than 154 games in any full season before last year.

The cash-strapped Expos, owned by the other 29 major league clubs, let him go in December, declining to offer salary arbitration.

The Angels went 77-85 and missed the playoffs last year after winning the World Series in 2002, but they've had a busy -- and expensive -- offseason under new owner Arte Moreno. He bought the team from The Walt Disney Co. last May.

Earlier this offseason, Anaheim signed pitchers Bartolo Colon and Kelvim Escobar, along with outfielder Jose Guillen.

Colon got a $51 million, four-year contract last month after Escobar received an $18.75 million, three-year deal in November.

Guillen signed a $6 million, two-year contract, strengthening an injury-plagued outfield.

Moreno has spent nearly $146 million on the free-agent market during the offseason. The Angels' payroll was around $76 million last season and could top $111 million this year if Anaheim doesn't trade away any high-priced players.

Moreno paid Disney $183.5 million for the team.

The Angels are expected to shift Darin Erstad from the outfield to first base, with Guerrero, Guillen and Garret Anderson providing a trio of power hitters in the outfield.

Guerrero speaks little English, but will join a team with a Spanish-speaking owner and manager, Mike Scioscia, and Dominicans Colon, Guillen, pitcher Ramon Ortiz and coach Alfredo Griffin.

Moreno, a fourth-generation American who is a native of Tucson, Ariz., made a fortune in outdoor advertising. He worked in his parents' print shop in Tucson as a kid and is the first major league controlling owner of Hispanic background.

He said when he bought the Angels that he obviously wanted to reach out to the Mexican-American community in Southern California, "but also to everybody."

The Angels were believed to have entered the bidding for Guerrero only late last week. On Saturday, he turned down a three-year offer from the New York Mets that would have paid him $71 million over five years if he reached incentives.

The Baltimore Orioles also pursued him and were thought to have offered at least $65 million over five years.

This makes the Angels the team to beat in the AL West, IMO, by a fair margin.

[Berzerker]

My prefs

hits
runs
doubles *
homers
rbis
stolen bases
batting average
total bases
walks or obs
slugging or ops

wins
losses
saves
holds
era
k's
bb's
hits allowed
whip *

head to head

daily or weekly but prefer daily

18 ip minimum/week

* = lowest priority

[Soul Survivor]

the problem with some of these stats is that a lot of them overlap, especially for hitting...

a home run counts for a hit, a run, a home run, at least 1 RBI, 4 total bases, SLG, BA, OBS and OPS. Is a home run really that important? A guy who hits a home run and goes 1-5 helps your stats much more than a guy who goes 3-4 with a couple of runs, a walk and an RBI. Which guy is more valuable in helping their team win? Definitely the guy who went 3-4. But since the home run counts for so many different stats the value for fantasy would be higher.

With pitchers there is significantly less overlap unless you include ERA, BAA and WHIP. Also is it right to reward pitchers solely for being on a team with a good offense? It really says nothing about how good the pitcher is, he could give up 2 runs and still get a loss. Similarly with holds, I doubt too many detroit pitchers got holds last year regardless of how good they might have been. I'm not saying wins or holds or saves should be eliminated just that maybe some other stats should be considered for pitchers as well. Overlapping stats, like last year with K's and K/BB...