It does not matter if Iraq has or had WOMD's or not at this point

[Stuie]

Originally posted by bfg9000
Bush thinks there are WMDs on Mars now.

And OBL is on the moon.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
Do you understand what Ba'athism is? Arab nationalism and Islamism do not go well together. Saddam and the Islamists were fundamentally opposed; he was repressive towards the Islamists, and the Islamists have been trying to resist his gov't, this is a basic fact. Any halfway-decent source on Middle Eastern politics will tell you that.

Ramo, the Ba'atists were /are a national socialist movement founded circa 1943 IIRC when the Nazi's were at the height of their power by pan-Arabists who were associated with fascist organizations and who were certainly anti-British and anti-French.

But that does not mean that Saddam did not moderate his views in the last several years just as I said.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you understand what Ba'athism is? Arab nationalism and Islamism do not go well together. Saddam and the Islamists were fundamentally opposed; he was repressive towards the Islamists, and the Islamists have been trying to resist his gov't, this is a basic fact. Any halfway-decent source on Middle Eastern politics will tell you that.

Ramo, Ned is correct in saying that in the last 5-10 years, Saddam had begun courting the Islamists. He felt that in his struggle against the US he needed some help and cozied up to the religious groups.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by rah
Getting old is soooo much fun.

Beats the alternative.

[Ramo]

Ramo, Ned is correct in saying that in the last 5-10 years, Saddam had begun courting the Islamists. He felt that in his struggle against the US he needed some help and cozied up to the religious groups.

The "courting" wasn't at all substantial. He was killing off Islamists till the end of his regime. Like when he assassinated Grand Ayatollah al-Sadr (father of perhaps the most promient radical Islamist currently in Iraq) a couple years ago.

Ramo, the Ba'atists were /are a national socialist movement

National Socialism denotes a certain form of fascism, namely the German version. Ba'athism is not a "National Socialist" movement.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo


The "courting" wasn't at all substantial. He was killing off Islamists till the end of his regime. Like when he assassinated Grand Ayatollah al-Sadr (father of perhaps the most promient radical Islamist currently in Iraq) a couple years ago.



National Socialism denotes a certain form of fascism, namely the German version. Ba'athism is not a "National Socialist" movement.

No, it is worse as it actually is socialist, whereas, as Che would say, the German industrialists let Hitler assume power only if he junked the party's socialist tendencies. But, still, both countries had one supreme leader who assassinated rivals and who made war on his neighbors.

[Sirotnikov]

Hmm....

Saddam didn't exactly court islamists as he was most definitly against them (Even killing them, as ramo noted), but I assume that he would use any option to increase support against America. Doesn't mean that he gave up baathism, but tyrants are known to bend their ideologies in order to save their skin.

[Ramo]

What specifically has Saddam done in adding Islamist elements to his ideology, Siro?

No, it is worse as it actually is socialist, whereas, as Che would say, the German industrialists let Hitler assume power only if he junked the party's socialist tendencies. But, still, both countries had one supreme leader who assassinated rivals and who made war on his neighbors.

1. Ba'athism is certainly not socialism. Using European categories, it best fits under the label of fascism. Which is a capitalist, not socialist, ideology.
2. Hitler junked the socialist wing of the NSDAP on his own, not because the German industrialists told him to do it.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
What specifically has Saddam done in adding Islamist elements to his ideology, Siro?



1. Ba'athism is certainly not socialism. Using European categories, it best fits under the label of fascism. Which is a capitalist, not socialist, ideology.
2. Hitler junked the socialist wing of the NSDAP on his own, not because the German industrialists told him to do it.

Che, you've been arguing to the contrary. What is it the truth?

[Q Classic]

i wish i had someone to vote for, rather than merely voting against bush. damn ******* is making me pay for his damn party.

[Ramo]

Che, you've been arguing to the contrary. What is it the truth?

I wasn't aware that I'm che.