New HOF class for MLB

[Ming]

Yeah... one of the best trades the Cubs ever made... doesn't quite make up for the Lou Brock deal though....

[Imran Siddiqui]

And the Cubs paid for it (by the baseball Gods) when their owners decided Maddux was too much money .

[Ming]

And what's even funnier... the Cubs are looking to sign Maddux again (why couldn't they have just kept him in the first place)... they are waiting for the price to come down, but it looks like they have a fair shot at him. It will be great, sign him to a solid contract, and then watch his arm fall off by May

GO CUBS!

[Provost Harrison]

You're all speaking complete gibberish...even the thread title is complete gibberish.

[rah]

Originally posted by TCO
he (Joe Carter) didn't play for an American team.

He did spend some time on the Cubs. As did many of the nominees this year.

[Japher]

to the Eck-man... It's like Sam Malone getting in.

[Stefan Härtel]

he didn't play for an American team.

Carter was with the Cubs, the Indians and the Padres before he came to Toronto.
What has been done here is ridiculous. Same with Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key and Cecil Fielder. Why are so many former Blue Jays (Fielder was one too, before he went to Japan) so bluntly ignored?

[Stefan Härtel]

Well, at least Paul Molitor is in.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What has been done here is ridiculous. Same with Dave Stieb, Jimmy Key and Cecil Fielder. Why are so many former Blue Jays (Fielder was one too, before he went to Japan) so bluntly ignored?

Carter isn't HOF material. The Jamesian formulas show that and his career averages are: .259/.306/.464 (ie, nothing HOF about it... especially OBP). Yes, he's got 396 HRs and 1445 RBIs, but that don't make you automatic for the HOF by any streach.

Stieb, I agree, has ALWAYS been underrated... even during the 80s. However, he isn't HOF material either. He didn't have long enough a career. He only has 176 Wins and an ERA of 3.44 (though an excellent ERA+ of 122). As for the Jamesian factors:

Black Ink: Pitching - 17 (115) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 142 (104) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 27.0 (161) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 55.5 (210) (Likely HOFer > 100)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/stiebda01.shtml

Key has similar problems. Too short of career, leading to less than 200 wins (186 to be exact). He had a 3.51 ERA (though an ERA+ of 122, exactly like Stieb).

Black Ink: Pitching - 15 (135) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 96 (208) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 33.0 (110) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 66.0 (168) (Likely HOFer > 100)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/keyji01.shtml

Fielder, as I've said, isn't HOF material either. Only 319 HRs, and that was his bread and butter.

---

If it makes you happy, Roberto Alomar is a SURE FIRE Hall of Famer. Especially because of his great defense as well as high batting average and on base percentage through his career.

[Ming]

Thanks for the site link Imran... great stuff.

[Stefan Härtel]

If it makes you happy, Roberto Alomar is a SURE FIRE Hall of Famer. Especially because of his great defense as well as high batting average and on base percentage through his career.

Honestly, I think Carter deserves it much more than him. If you had been a Jays fan in the mid-nineties, you'd understand me. He simply was the best player, his homers and RBIs constantly won games (not to mention the special one pointed out earlier in this thread). No need to mention that Alomar is, and has always been, a great player, and he deserves the HOF, but the dropping of Carter simply is criminal.

[Spiffor]

Club Thread!

Let's report to Ming so that he closes this one

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov
Oh, and we've also learned that Jim Eisenreich has three relatives in the BBWAA. (Sorry.)

And Juan Samuel has two!

What the hell were they even doing on the ballot. I liked Eisenreich when he played (and he was my mom's favorite Phillie), but HOF? No way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Thanks for the site link Imran... great stuff.

Yep... I love that site. It's really good with the stats. I just hope for them integrating Bill James' Win Shares in one of these days . Oh, and if you are feeling generous, I'd recommend donating some cash to those guys. You can even buy space for a message over any player (as long as that space hasn't been taken yet ). That's what keeps it all free.

Honestly, I think Carter deserves it much more than him. If you had been a Jays fan in the mid-nineties, you'd understand me. He simply was the best player, his homers and RBIs constantly won games (not to mention the special one pointed out earlier in this thread). No need to mention that Alomar is, and has always been, a great player, and he deserves the HOF, but the dropping of Carter simply is criminal.

Thos are emotional arguments. You have to look at the stats and you'll see Joe Carter is not HOF material. I gave you his personal stats.

Here are the Jamesian factors:

Black Ink: Batting - 9 (233) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 103 (200) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 31.2 (248) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 88.5 (169) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Black Ink measureing times on TOP of the leaderboard
Grey Ink measureing tims in Top 10 of the leaderboard
HOF Standards measuring how deserving a player is of getting in, based on stats.
HOF Monitor measuring how likely a player is of getting in, based on sexy stats (like 50+ HRs) and awards.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cartejo01.shtml

Also, the players most similar to Carter (with 1000 being perfect match):

Dale Murphy (901)
Andres Galarraga (884)
Don Baylor (864)
Jim Rice (864)
Orlando Cepeda (861) *
Gary Gaetti (860)
Chili Davis (857)
Ruben Sierra (844)
Willie Stargell (837) *
Lee May (836)

* = HOFer

Rice probably deserves to be in the HOF as well. But only 3 of his Top 10 will be HOFers. Murphy, who is most similar to him is overrated because of a few amazing years and then he fell off the table.

Add to that that he was only a 5 time all-star, never led the league in HRs, only led the league once in RBIs, only finished in the Top 5 in MVP voting twice in his career, and you have a player NOT HOF worthy.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
what about Pete Rose

I would bet that he wont because of his "Gambling" and "Lifetime Ban"..
Oh Wait..I mean when i said "Bet" please dont take it that I was in anyway "placing" a "bet" whilst

Grand..PA TROLL ing around the forums, because i wouldnt want to not be voted in either...

But seriously, he would deserve it if soley on talent, but this vote includes character and well, he IS quite a character..

I say a definite No to pete Rose, and I grew up watching him play and think he is a great ballplayer just he blew it with the sideshow