Top Ten World Powers

[MrFun]

Originally posted by notyoueither
See, the problem part with the British for all the rest of you tossers, is the Brits managed to create an empire who actually wanted and want to belong to it, even if they think it outmoded and too much of a burden today.

Even the Indians, who for reasons of their own go their own way, maintian links with the Imperial power and wouldn't trade English or cricket for anything. They are misguided in that cricket bit, but nobody's perfect.

So, go ahead comrade, have fun. As your empire of fear crumbled around you, you can think forlorn thoughts about how someone else actually got it right long before you tried, and their achivements will be remembered long after the dead husk of your tyranny is forgotten in the ash heaps of history.

Oh yes, and I fully expect some Aussie to flame this post.

Yeah, because we all know how South Africa was a lovely example of freedom and liberty in that part of the British Empire.

[C0ckney]

maybe you should read about south africa after 1910 before you put all the blame on us mrfun...

[Arrian]

1. USA
2. UK
3. China
4. France
5. Germany
6. Russia
7. Japan
8. Canada
9. India
10. Notimportantenoughistan

Just couldn't come up with a worthy #10.

-Arrian

[DAVOUT]

A dynamic view

2014

1. EU
2. USA
3. CHINA
4. JAPAN
5. RUSSIA

2019

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. USA
4. JAPAN
5. RUSSIA

2024

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. USA
5. RUSSIA

2029

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. USA
6. CANADA

2034

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. USA
7. BRAZIL

2039

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. BRAZIL
7. USA
8. INDIA

2044

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. BRAZIL
7. INDIA
8. USA
9. NIGERIA

2049

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. BRAZIL
7. INDIA
8. NIGERIA
9. USA
10. TONGA

[Ollie Oliver]

Mordor.

[DanS]

@ davout

[lord of the mark]

I think y'all are underestimating China.

1. Military - the only state that the US military really worries about
2. Force projection - no they cant send a couple of battalions of paras to some african hellhole like France or UK can, but whats that really worth to France and UK? China CAN project force on the Korean peninsula, in Southeast Asia, and potentially against Russia.
3. Diplomatic - important influence all across east asia, which collectively is THE most important and growing part of the planet. Influence in south asia, and central asia. Yes they dont assert themselves on the UNSC like France does, thats cause theyre too busy building up their real power, not overplaying a weak and declining hand.
4. The power of their market - their large and growing market makes them particularly important to global industry.


Y'all are overestimating Israel - economy well below 10, diplomatically relatively isolated, military strong WHEN fully mobilized, which they cant be for very long. Doesnt belong on the top 10. Australia would be a better pick, for its economy, resources, strategic position, etc.

Brazil definitely a better pick than Saudi, and even South Africa is worth a mention as a regional power.

Sheer size of economy would out Italy in or near the 10, i suspect a bias against Italy because of internal political weakness and no recent military successes.

[Arrian]

Italy was going to be my #10, but yeah their political instability/military weakness led to me putting "notimportantenoughistan" in their place.

-Arrian

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

2. Force projection - no they cant send a couple of battalions of paras to some african hellhole like France or UK can, but whats that really worth to France and UK? China CAN project force on the Korean peninsula, in Southeast Asia, and potentially against Russia.

But that´s not really the meaning of force projection. Every country with a mentionable army is able to move forces into regions at its borders or a bit further. What you say for China goes for Russia, India, and Pakistan as well. But not everyone can project force around the world in an acceptable timeframe, and with forces that can actually DO something there (heavy armor, air mobile forces, air power etc.). And the UK has just shown that it can send more than some battalions into the ME. I´d assume similar abilities for France.

When China attacked Vietnam in 1979 they had lots of difficulties, mildly expressed - some count this as complete failure. I´m not convinced that they´d do a lot better now.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro


But that´s not really the meaning of force projection. Every country with a mentionable army is able to move forces into regions at its borders or a bit further. What you say for China goes for Russia, India, and Pakistan as well. But not everyone can project force around the world in an acceptable timeframe, and with forces that can actually DO something there (heavy armor, air mobile forces, air power etc.). And the UK has just shown that it can send more than some battalions into the ME. I´d assume similar abilities for France.

When China attacked Vietnam in 1979 they had lots of difficulties, mildly expressed - some count this as complete failure. I´m not convinced that they´d do a lot better now.

with all due respect to our gallant British allies, they have sent about one division to the ME, with logistical support from the US, via friendly Kuwait. I assume China could do the same, if they chose. Indeed, by that standard Romania, Bulgaria, Spain, Dominican Republic, etc can all move at least some units around. I assume that was is meant by force projection is the ability to move ones own troops around without logistical support from allies, and where necessary via air drop or amphibious landing without assistance from any local state. UK and France may have that ability, but its not large scale, and not all that politically important.

Yup, China lost to NVA, who, at the time, were considered among the best infantry in the world. And who relied on the economic and logistic support of the SU, a superpower. The threat presented by China is a principle motive for VN's reconciliation with the US, yet one more example of Chinas importance in the Pacific sphere.

[DanS]

with all due respect to our gallant British allies, they have sent about one division to the ME, with logistical support from the US, via friendly Kuwait. I assume China could do the same, if they chose.

On the timeline that we had before the war? Nope. Don't think so. You are forgetting that logistics are fairly complicated.

With the UK, we knew they had good quality as well.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by C0ckney
maybe you should read about south africa after 1910 before you put all the blame on us mrfun...

My point is that superficial glorification of the British empire ignores the crimes that have been committed against various groups of people.

Oh -- I forgot to mention how British settlers in Australia hunted down aboriginals like they were game animals.

[notyoueither]

A bit full of yourself today, are you not, MrFun?

I did not say that nothing bad ever happened in the Empire. I was trading barbs with the comrade.

[MrFun]

fine -- carry on

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I was trading barbs with the comrade.

The Soviet Union was more evil than the British Empire