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Something I thought was on point with the topic of this thread.
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Something I thought was on point with the topic of this thread.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio -
International criminal court (he's pissed that many people off), and no to death penalty. I'm on principle opposed to killing even the most vile, plus it'll martyr him which will create more problems for the West."I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:Comment
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let the iraqis deal with him, but prohibit the death penalty.B♭3Comment
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Why?Originally posted by Q Cubed
let the iraqis deal with him, but prohibit the death penalty.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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as i've stated above. i'm opposed to the death penalty for moral reasons.B♭3Comment
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surely (and this point has been pretty much ignored so far) that is the iraqis decision. he commited his crimes against their country so if they want to put him to death then why not? if they want him to rot in a cell, then that's cool too."The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.
"The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de BottonComment
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What does that have to do with anything? Limiting the punishments available to the Iraqis undercuts the value of turning him over in the first place. The only reason such a thing should be done is if he turns over useful and substantial information to us.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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i cannot in good conscience support a move that would lead to capital punishment.
granted, it's completely outside of my control, and if the iraqis do wish to kill him, i'm sure they'll find a way even if we do set up an injunction.
hell, it happened to lee harvey oswald, didn't it ? or jeffrey dahmer (a bit more of an apt description)?
that does not stop me from having the moral obligation, at least to myself, of opposing the death penalty.B♭3Comment
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This the dilemma that haunted early Christian Church, but in a different context. If life was sacrosanct, how do you justify war? They solved that problem in terms of justice, which is the same concept involved in capital punishment.Originally posted by Q Cubed
The contradiction, Q cubed, is opposing the death penalty for the guilty and supporting it for the blameless unborn
everyone has the right to life. no human has the right to abrogate another's right to life, no matter how inhuman the other person has behaved--unless you are willing to set yourself as superior to them, removing both their humanity away and your own.
To the extent that Church fails to learn from its own history and begins to make absolute the right to life, it creates unfortunate and irreconcilable conflicts with human nature and with human needs.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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For those of you who opposed the death penalty in Saddam's case, do you think that a cozy prison would deter future Saddam's?
Would you agree, then, that the death penalty would provide greater deterrence?
What is more important here, deterrence of war crimes and crimes against humanity or some idealized principle?http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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war can't be justified. it's something that happens because we're human. there can be wars for good causes, but the human cost of it is staggering.
i know of justice. i know saddam has to answer for a lot of hellish things. but being human means that i cannot set myself above him without losing my humanity. that is exactly what he did when he summarily decided that others should be denied the right to life simply because they opposed him: he set himself as to be more than human; and now he's learning that he's really only human after all.
i can't support the death penalty because i can't convince myself that it makes me any different from the murderer it gets rid of.B♭3Comment
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who said he deserves a cozy cell?
make him stay in his spider hole for the rest of his life, unable to move, stand, sit, or lie down. make sure he gets medical treatment, so the rest of his life is a long long time.
or have him march through iraq, barefoot, coming face to face with every single individual he's wronged. let them abase him and humiliate him.
cruel? perhaps. but so were his tortures. will it stop other saddams? it just might.
killing him will only make them sleep in 50 different palaces, rather than 40.B♭3Comment
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International criminal court
Can't. ICC doesn't have jurisdiction over things done before it came to existance.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Q Cubed, you have a strange concept of cruel and unusual punishment. Torture is OK. The Death Penalty is not. To most civilized people, the opposide is true.Originally posted by Q Cubed
who said he deserves a cozy cell?
make him stay in his spider hole for the rest of his life, unable to move, stand, sit, or lie down. make sure he gets medical treatment, so the rest of his life is a long long time.
or have him march through iraq, barefoot, coming face to face with every single individual he's wronged. let them abase him and humiliate him.
cruel? perhaps. but so were his tortures. will it stop other saddams? it just might.
killing him will only make them sleep in 50 different palaces, rather than 40.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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cruel and unusual punishment ? honestly, i don't think too much about it.
yes, i can see the wisdom in gandhi's statement that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. in cases like this, where saddam brutalized people, it--to me--only makes sense that he should walk a mile in their shoes.
i don't support torture for most things. interrogations do not need it. convicts as a rule don't deserve it.
but saddam is a sadistic bastard who i honestly feel needs to understand what he did to other people. killing him won't make him realize that. why?
his words when he was captured: "i was a fair and just leader."B♭3Comment
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