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Turn Saddam over to the Kurds!

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  • #1

    Turn Saddam over to the Kurds!

    I'm a person who is not opposed to the death penalty for moral reasons, but for procedural reasons. In the USA there are some strong indications that innocent people have been executed, and nobody seems to be working on clearing up those issues. (not a troll, background).

    With Saddam Hussein, however, my argument falls apart. Can anybody here argue the man was not responible for egregious crimes against humanity? He should still get a fair trial. I would favor turning him over to the Kurds, they have a functioning government at this point. Or maybe to a council of Shia clerics. Sharia has been a legal code for over a millenia.

    We could also just wait and turn him over to the future governement of Iraq in a couple of years. I just don't find that as just for the victims, his trial and highly probably execution would give them closure. If it was my wife and little girl, I sure as hell would want him dead (though you couldn't let me do, I believe torture is not legal).

    I do not believe we should try him in the USA or in front of a war crimes tribunal. This is because of a) fairness to the Iraqi people b) procedural reasons and precedent c) international tribunals by and large now don't consider the death penalty. The International Court in the Hague only applies to crimes since 2002, so that's not the appropriate venue. Any thoughts.
    41
    Saddam Hussein should face the death penalty.
    48.78%
    20
    Saddam Hussein should not face the death penalty.
    31.71%
    13
    Shove the banana up Saddam's...
    19.51%
    8
    The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
    And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
    Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
    Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    For any court to try this man it must show jurisdiction. The Kurds do not have an internationally recognised state let alone a court with established rules governing its jurisdiction.

    For good measure the US is not free simply to dispose of him by force majeur. He is best treated as a prisoner of war. I am not sure what, if any, extradition agreements are in place in respect of such persons but if there are any such it is for a state which believes its courts have jurisdiction and an extradition treaty with the US to make application to the apropriate US court.

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    • #3
      I'm not sure chosing jurisdiction on the basis of possible sentence is very sensible. In any avent the Kurds do not have the death penalty
      Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
      Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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      • #4
        Long trip...short rope...case closed.
        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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        • #5
          whatever you think or feel about Saddam Hussein now, note that by wrath and hate you just set another comfortable basis for the next evil tyrant´s crimes.
          justice is might

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          • #6
            As long is it is by hanging, I don't care where they do it. Hanging is traditionally the most dishonorable death. they better not give him a firing squad, historically the most honorable (I don't consider volontary suicide an execution).
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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            • #7
              Freeze him and when the Kurds have their own state they can form a bilateral tribunal with the Iraqi state, then defrost him and let them try him.

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              • #8
                We're giving him to the Iraqis. That should satisfy all but the Iranians.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                • #9
                  Hussein should, and will, get the death penalty, IMO.
                  The trial will be in Iraq, and Kurds will have a part in it.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                  • #10
                    Why should the Kurds have all the fun. The Shi'ites have reason enough to want him dead.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                    • #11
                      Expel him to Iran or Israel
                      So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                      Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

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                      • #12
                        Actually, why the sudden in favor of the death penalty?
                        Because we're talking about a particular individual?
                        Sounds cruel and unusual to me.
                        After all, he's just a poor, tired, old man.
                        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                        • #13
                          Iraq is a non starter for the same reason as the Kurds. There is no established government and no court administering stable laws.

                          The front runner would be an internationally established court.

                          The US has always opposed a standing tribunal - being unwilling for its own leaders to answer before it.

                          But the US participated in Nuremburg so it would presumably go along with a one-off court established for the purpose.

                          How such a thing could ever preside over anything but a show trial I don't know.

                          Nuremburg was just a bunch of posturing and speechifying.

                          But maybe we have moved on. The court established for the Balkan cases has looked much better.

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                          • #14
                            i'm against the death penalty, but if the iraqis want to execute him, it's their choice.
                            "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                            "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by East Street Trader
                              Iraq is a non starter for the same reason as the Kurds. There is no established government and no court administering stable laws.
                              They already have an interim government and they had already put together a tribunal.


                              Originally posted by East Street Trader
                              The front runner would be an internationally established court.
                              No. An international court/tribunal is the dumbest alternative suggested so far.

                              Originally posted by East Street Trader
                              The US has always opposed a standing tribunal - being unwilling for its own leaders to answer before it.
                              No, we have just wisened up to the fact that it would be as incompetent as the rest of the UN projects.

                              Originally posted by East Street Trader
                              But the US participated in Nuremburg so it would presumably go along with a one-off court established for the purpose.
                              The US has stated from the beginning that it wants the Iraqis to try him. It committed his crimes against Iraqis in Iraq and they have jurisdiction.
                              Last edited by GhengisFarbâ„¢; December 16, 2003, 12:13.

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