USA and France to reconcile?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Spiffor

To "discover" the deals between France and Saddam's Iraq will be about as interesting as to "discover" that Rumsie went all smiles to Saddam some 15 years ago. .

WRONG, there were not international sactions 15 years ago. Since Gulf war I, it has been illegal to sell almost all military goods and services, and many industrial one to Iraq. And you an bet that one of the negotiating points Backer with have with several countries, is what the USA does with captured evidence of sanctions violations.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
And you an bet that one of the negotiating points Backer with have with several countries, is what the USA does with captured evidence of sanctions violations.

Indeed, but don't consider the weight of this negociating item too highly. The worst thing that can happen to the countries whose deals with Saddam will be unveiled (France, Germany and Russia... for some reason, any country involved in the conquest of Iraq will be strangely innocent ) is a very bad PR.

AFAIK, there are no planned sanctions towards those who disrespected the sanctions. Besides, it is difficult to start commercial sanctions on France and Germany, because these countries are more important to international trade as Serbia or Iraq, and because it would open a commercial conflict with the EU as a whole (the EU is one economic zone, it's pretty hard to target only one country in it).

It's surely well known for a long time, in diplomatic spheres, who dealt with Saddam during the sanctions. What the evidence will bring is a more precise account of what has been traded. Not much of a value for a diplomat. The only real threat is to make it public, and to give a PR hit.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Spiffor
... for some reason, any country involved in the conquest of Iraq will be strangely innocent .

The reason being that they have control of the evidence, something some other nations, deed in the cesspool, should have thought of.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
The reason being that they have control of the evidence, something some other nations, deed in the cesspool, should have thought of.

Glad to know we see eye to eye on this one

[Patroklos]

The obvios reason why the members of the coalition will not be implicated is because they were not involved, besides of cours ENFORCING the precious santions prewar. Odd how the ones who yelled so long for continueing that ineffective mess were, as was noted above, the ones everybody knew were violating them.

-Pat

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Of course we dealt with him. We're the world's third weapon exporter after the US and Russia. It's obvious we have clients scattered around the world, and it's obvious we don't only have the nice kids on the block in our shop.

And you know what more incredible? You too!
Your country too had deals with the Saddam regime, if only because you cannot exactly act as if a 30 million inhab country didn't exist for 12 years, especially when it sits on a sea of oil.

To "discover" the deals between France and Saddam's Iraq will be about as interesting as to "discover" that Rumsie went all smiles to Saddam some 15 years ago. It feels dirty, but the whole international diplomacy is dirty.

One of the many reasons France rejected war so adamantly was that the Saddam regime had a huge debt towards us, and we feared his toppling would cancel the debt. In all their postwar handlings with France on the issue, the US and the Iraqi council raised the debt issue, threatening or announcing to cancel it.
There's a very simple reason why this debt is important (even for France, who cancelled many debts in the past). That's because the debt is huge. Before GulfWar1, we sold throngs of missiles and chemicals to Saddam, and even a nuclear reactor! Of course we want the money.

Is it dirty? Definitely, that's clearly nothing to be proud of. But then again, past the moralizing PR, nobody can be proud of anything in Iternational Relations.

Well said Spiffor. I can't agree more. Basically, as pointed out by Hobbes and repeatedly mentioned by international relations gurus, diplomacy obeys to absolutely no morale.

(BTW, how come your English is so good?)

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Patroklos
The obvios reason why the members of the coalition will not be implicated is because they were not involved

Aaaah, the naïveté of youth, when you think the word divides clearly between good and evil.

I take it you are still watching Candy-Candy?

(sorry, but I always think of Candy-Candy's opening theme in these times, that features "In Candy's land, like in all other lands, there are villains and nice guys")

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
(BTW, how come your English is so good?)

Videogames for years
Apolyton for two years

[Dinner]

Because he is secretly an accountant from Reading who simply pretends to be French.

[Patroklos]

heh,

The naïveté of a person that doesn't want to bare the burden of guilt alone, or is that desperation?

Is that what passes for cartoons over there?

-PAt

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Patroklos
The naïveté of a person that doesn't want to bare the burden of guilt alone, or is that desperation?

I admit.
The fact that I don't hold the US or any other of its ad-hoc allies for Saints has only one reason.
That's because I'm despaired. yes sir

Is that what passes for cartoons over there?

It did about 20 years ago. But I am still shocked by the atrocious good/bad propaganda this theme blatently spewed to children. When I tried to explain my little cousin that good vs evil was much more complex than that, she simply didn't understand at 7

[GePap]

The French ahd lucrative contracts through the Oil for food program-interestingly, Haliburton under Cheney had some contracts in Iraq.

Zippo evidence yet that French companies sold any contraband to Iraq-so i don;t know what all the francophobes are talking about.

As for France and the US reconciling? Not until this admin leaves, cause the fact is, its this admins. way or the highway.

[Patroklos]

Perhaps if you would have shown her a classic like old school GI Joe, then she could learn from the interesting dynamic between Flint and Lady Jay, and their interaction with Cobra Master.

Oh yeah and it will also teach her the USA is always right

So out of curiosity, how did all those US weapons make it into Iraq after 91? bieng I was on one of the warships watching European flaged ships enter Iraqi ports, but no American ones.

The answer is we airdropped them of course, unfortunetly they all exploded on top of French equipment upon delivery. Damn shame.

-Pat

[Patroklos]

Yeah, the French admin is pretty stubborn.

[GePap]

The US did not seel significant arms to Iraq even before 1981 becuase of pro-Israel sentiment against arming Arab states. The US did nothing to persduade toehrs not to arm Iraq and did seel dual use materials.

Again, the assertion that France sold wepaons to Iraq is withou foundation right now. NOw, arms dealers selling European and Eastern Block made weapons? Perhaps.