On this day 62 years ago...

[Kuciwalker]

chegitz - a) I doubt that's true and b) they're only called traitors by extremist morons. Unless you somehow think that Ned is a representative of all the other conservatives in America.

[The Mad Monk]

WWII, at the time, was not conventional by any means. Armor, submarines and airpower came into their own and utterly changed the face of combat. The interiors of otherwise well-defended nations became suseptible to attack by bombers, rockets, and very heavy artillary. Total war, with everyone a legitimate target, became reality.

Of course, that's not the half of it.

[The Mad Monk]

Perhaps, Che, but I would be a tad more concerned about the president who set up The Office of Censorship.

[Sprayber]

che, is it possible to keep a thread about pearl harbor from becoming your rant about the republican party. please.

One thing that is relevent is that the park service is having to deal with a possible threat to the enviroment that the Arizona poses. They have to struggle with the symbolic nature of the Arizona and it's possible threat to the enviroment to Pearl Harbor.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Azazel
What's the parallel? Civilians != battleships.

If that were true we'd send a couple of holiday tour buses filled with battleships over there and level their habitations to dust.

[Dis]

Yes they are sending more diving teams inside the Arizona to determine how the ship is holding up etc.

I have more interest in this I suppose because of my time in the navy. Imagine trying to get a ship underway while under attack.

And I would like to look for more shipboard logs.

62 years is a long time. Yet the technology of the U.S. navy hasn't changed that much. Serious. Sure the weapons technology has evolved leaps and bounds. And things like Gas turbine ships do allow them to get underway faster, but a majority of the ships have similar propulsion to what they had 62 years ago. I find it very easily to relate to the ships back then. And the USS Cole did show how vulnerable navy ships are. On the USS Enterprise I often felt untouchable. I still feel that ship is very untouchable by terrorists. Of course it's easy to say this beause my berthing space wasn't on the edge of the ship like the USS Cole. I believe many of those killed were inside the berthing compartment at the time.

There are of coures parallels to 9/11. Most are a stretch though. The main thing is they both attacked us when we felt secure and untouchable. And I don't think any republicans dared say a word towards the administration of Roosevelt in WW2. Things like that were not done in those days.

[Kuciwalker]

62 years is a long time. Yet the technology of the U.S. navy hasn't changed that much. Serious. Sure the weapons technology has evolved leaps and bounds. And things like Gas turbine ships do allow them to get underway faster, but a majority of the ships have similar propulsion to what they had 62 years ago. I find it very easily to relate to the ships back then. And the USS Cole did show how vulnerable navy ships are. On the USS Enterprise I often felt untouchable. I still feel that ship is very untouchable by terrorists. Of course it's easy to say this beause my berthing space wasn't on the edge of the ship like the USS Cole. I believe many of those killed were inside the berthing compartment at the time.

I don't know about propulsion (though we DID develop nuclear engines), but I know that virtually everything else has improved, so the statement "the technology of the US navy hasn't changed much" is patently false.

[Dis]

even with a nuclear reactor. The steam engine is essentually the same. Yes I looked at manuals that had specific mention of older ships.

[Drake Tungsten]

I want to use this thread to honour all of those involved- on both sides. The japanese were called cowardly for their surprise attack. But I feel otherwise. It was a legitimate military target, it's not like they were targeting unarmed civilians. The U.S. probably should have been more prepared. There was a world war going on, and they did recently put an embargo on Japan I believe. It was a fantastic attack.

I agree.

BTW, some people do care about this, but were asleep when it was posted. They did manage to post on December 8th, though.

[Dis]

they live in some screwed up country then

I think all time should be U.S. time. Kind of like greenich mean time, but we would call it New York mean time.

[Kuciwalker]

even with a nuclear reactor. The steam engine is essentually the same. Yes I looked at manuals that had specific mention of older ships.

The steam turbine is essentially the ONLY system for that that has EVER existed (other than electric motors), and it's pretty likely going to stay that way for a VERY long time, simply because it works. However, all other naval technology has improved by leaps and bounds.

[Dis]

ahh but really old ships used diesal engines, and even some small newer ships use diesal engines. And there is a little thing called gas turbines used in new cruisers and fast frigate. Great technology. Of course that can't be used for really large ships (although eventually they may manufacture a gas turbine large enough to power them). But the only really large ships we use are carriers and the marine carriers (LHA's, LHD's)

[Dis]

And I still disagree about all other naval technology. The only technology that has increased relates directly to weapons and/or navigational systems.

Basic **** like hot water heaters is essentually the same as the 40's. Low pressure steam heats the hot water. And often doesn't work worth a crap resulting in not enough hot water if you take a shower when a watch section gets off .

[DrGerry]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Both were sneak attacks that led America into war.
Both were used by the administrations of the time to create a favorable view of foreign military engagements in the American people.
The presidents of the time have both been accused of having prior knowledge of the attacks, and allowing them to happen.
Foreknowedge or not, both presidents used the events to take actions and push through policies that never could have passed otherwise, justified or not.

[Sprayber]

While I don't want to totally discount your opinion skywalker, the fact that dissent actually served aboard a naval vessel might incline me to trust his observations more. Unless of course you have served aboard a naval vessel yourself.