I have been thinking about becoming a communist, but I am having trouble deciding. The best way I make a decision about something is to look at the pros and cons of both. I'll write the pros and cons of capitalism and communism and please add to the list if you can and refute the ones that are wrong. Some say that the destruction of capitalism is inevitable, but I don't think I'd be a Marxist. I think that the workers could always push for democratic socialism and not necessarily become communist. I still am not sure about the advantages of communism over democratic socialism. I understand that the welfare programs may always be abolished because of democracy, but they can always be created also and social democracies such as Canada and Sweden solve many of the problems of capitalism.
And I only want communists and/or socialists posting! I don't want this to turn into a bash communism thread or a flame war. I've been hearing the conservative opinions on communism for years now, so I want want to hear about it from the people who actually believe in it.
Communism
Pros:
Equality for everyone
All work is for a purpose, not just for your boss
No poverty
No societal dislocations because of poverty (which would also lead to less drugs)
perfect job security
never a need to stress out over stuff at work
WAY better for the environment
none of the corporate scandals
no Indonesian children working on nike shoes for .50 cents aday
no reason to exploit other people in the job market
none of the societal dislocations among the rich (they can be snobs)
the production of the nation can be controlled to what it's used for
no need in senseless competing for promotions
no people that get extremely rich without doing anywork
minorities would be more equal, no more ghettos
no problems of taxation (kids get taxed when they work but can't vote, corporations put their office in the Bahamas and aren't taxed but get representation)
no exploiting people (a ton of businesses must exploit people and do immoral things to survive, if you're going into a clothing business you can't compete with Gap because Gap gets such cheap labor, the only thing you can do is get that same cheap labor)
better economic stability-no depressions
Cons:
Not enough incentive for people to work (in capitalism, everyone is striving for that promotion and working hard) some people might not work and live off the system in a communism there isn't as much economic freedom (if I want to start and run my own restaurant business, I can't)
no private property, communal ownership (an example of this is I got a cell phone from my parents the other day, but my brother and I were debating on whether it was my cell phone and he can borrow it or we'll share it. either way it wouldn't affect the fact that I'd get to use it whenever i wanted to but i just wanted to be able to know I owned it and it was mine)
not many luxuries (but maybe that's just the way the Soviet Union was run)
in a capitalism, you can choose how well off you are financially. I can work very hard and get rich if I want to, or I can be lazy and be poor. it's my choice when one person works harder then another, they don't get richer
cookie cutter development housing, this isn't a biggie at all but I live in a big Victorian era home from 1914 and it is great, it has way more personality then those stupid pre-fabricated cheap development houses (notice the use of the word house instead of home)
Capitalism
Pros:
more economic: if I want to own and run a business i can, i can own whatever I want, if i want to be rich I can go out and work hard to earn my money incentive to work, if i work hard i can get promoted and make more money how hard someone works and their decisions in life decides how well they are financially
I am a good example of the last one. While most kids my age are getting high, I am throwing away my youth working so hard so I can go to a good college and make some money so I can do what I want for a living and be able to have a nice house and go on vactions. In a communism, if I did this I wouldn't end up any better off then the kids getting stoned, so all of it would be for nothing.
As for the cons of capitalism, just add all the things the pros of communism helps. But also, many of the problems of capitalism can be solved by a social democracy (like Sweden). So why is communism better then social democracy?
Poverty-just tax the rich heavily and use the money for social programs. This is what Sweden does and there is hardly any homeless people(only like 4000 I think) and there is little crime. And the rich aren't disgustingly rich.
job security-if worse comes to worse and you lose your job, you won't be homeless because of their job programs and social programs. So no need to stress out at work.
corporate scandals-the criminals can be punished, the people hurt by them can be repaid.
environment-the government can set laws and standards and create national parks and stuff for it.
as for minorites, it's not a problem in Sweden because of how they fixed poverty
as for explopiting people, they can always have rules and regulations to stop this from happening
child and sweateshop labor-this one must be fixed by communism but then again, it does create jobs and help industrialize countries. It is terrible that people must work for fifty cents an hour, but if they didn't have that job it would be for less.
A big issue seems to be that the people that communism helps-the poor people that live in the ghetto and the unemployed aren't very numerous in the US. We are so rich that only the poorest of the poor live in ghettos and bad places like that. Only 6.1% of our population is unemployed, and that's much higher than normal. And, a huge pro of communism is the idea of an
egilitarian society because there wouldn't be any classes. But, people will still descriminate each other by their profession. Just as the rich think that the poor people are a bunch of criminals and drug addicts, the jobs in a communist state that require
more education (such as doctors and lawyers) would look down upon a truck driver, thinking the truck driver must have screwed up to get a job lower in education or must be unintelligent. Also, a big part of communism is about how the proletariat are born into a caste and can never make their life better. But in the US you can be poor and become rich.
So what it comes down to is: is it worth it? To start a revolution, change a system that has worked very well for hundreds of years, possibly destroy democracy for a certain amount of time (if the revolution is violent, the possibility the leader that takes over
might not reinstall democracy, maybe have to re-write some laws, have to destroy and rebuild much property (the mansions, etc. must be destroyed and the poor housing areas definitely must be destroyed or else the purpose has been defeated. The poor would still end up living together and forming one of the 'ghettos'
unless their housing is changed and they are spread out throughout the population) and just any of the symptoms of having a radical change in government: all to help a small fraction of the population and make us feel better about our jobs?
And I only want communists and/or socialists posting! I don't want this to turn into a bash communism thread or a flame war. I've been hearing the conservative opinions on communism for years now, so I want want to hear about it from the people who actually believe in it.
Communism
Pros:
Equality for everyone
All work is for a purpose, not just for your boss
No poverty
No societal dislocations because of poverty (which would also lead to less drugs)
perfect job security
never a need to stress out over stuff at work
WAY better for the environment
none of the corporate scandals
no Indonesian children working on nike shoes for .50 cents aday
no reason to exploit other people in the job market
none of the societal dislocations among the rich (they can be snobs)
the production of the nation can be controlled to what it's used for
no need in senseless competing for promotions
no people that get extremely rich without doing anywork
minorities would be more equal, no more ghettos
no problems of taxation (kids get taxed when they work but can't vote, corporations put their office in the Bahamas and aren't taxed but get representation)
no exploiting people (a ton of businesses must exploit people and do immoral things to survive, if you're going into a clothing business you can't compete with Gap because Gap gets such cheap labor, the only thing you can do is get that same cheap labor)
better economic stability-no depressions
Cons:
Not enough incentive for people to work (in capitalism, everyone is striving for that promotion and working hard) some people might not work and live off the system in a communism there isn't as much economic freedom (if I want to start and run my own restaurant business, I can't)
no private property, communal ownership (an example of this is I got a cell phone from my parents the other day, but my brother and I were debating on whether it was my cell phone and he can borrow it or we'll share it. either way it wouldn't affect the fact that I'd get to use it whenever i wanted to but i just wanted to be able to know I owned it and it was mine)
not many luxuries (but maybe that's just the way the Soviet Union was run)
in a capitalism, you can choose how well off you are financially. I can work very hard and get rich if I want to, or I can be lazy and be poor. it's my choice when one person works harder then another, they don't get richer
cookie cutter development housing, this isn't a biggie at all but I live in a big Victorian era home from 1914 and it is great, it has way more personality then those stupid pre-fabricated cheap development houses (notice the use of the word house instead of home)
Capitalism
Pros:
more economic: if I want to own and run a business i can, i can own whatever I want, if i want to be rich I can go out and work hard to earn my money incentive to work, if i work hard i can get promoted and make more money how hard someone works and their decisions in life decides how well they are financially
I am a good example of the last one. While most kids my age are getting high, I am throwing away my youth working so hard so I can go to a good college and make some money so I can do what I want for a living and be able to have a nice house and go on vactions. In a communism, if I did this I wouldn't end up any better off then the kids getting stoned, so all of it would be for nothing.
As for the cons of capitalism, just add all the things the pros of communism helps. But also, many of the problems of capitalism can be solved by a social democracy (like Sweden). So why is communism better then social democracy?
Poverty-just tax the rich heavily and use the money for social programs. This is what Sweden does and there is hardly any homeless people(only like 4000 I think) and there is little crime. And the rich aren't disgustingly rich.
job security-if worse comes to worse and you lose your job, you won't be homeless because of their job programs and social programs. So no need to stress out at work.
corporate scandals-the criminals can be punished, the people hurt by them can be repaid.
environment-the government can set laws and standards and create national parks and stuff for it.
as for minorites, it's not a problem in Sweden because of how they fixed poverty
as for explopiting people, they can always have rules and regulations to stop this from happening
child and sweateshop labor-this one must be fixed by communism but then again, it does create jobs and help industrialize countries. It is terrible that people must work for fifty cents an hour, but if they didn't have that job it would be for less.
A big issue seems to be that the people that communism helps-the poor people that live in the ghetto and the unemployed aren't very numerous in the US. We are so rich that only the poorest of the poor live in ghettos and bad places like that. Only 6.1% of our population is unemployed, and that's much higher than normal. And, a huge pro of communism is the idea of an
egilitarian society because there wouldn't be any classes. But, people will still descriminate each other by their profession. Just as the rich think that the poor people are a bunch of criminals and drug addicts, the jobs in a communist state that require
more education (such as doctors and lawyers) would look down upon a truck driver, thinking the truck driver must have screwed up to get a job lower in education or must be unintelligent. Also, a big part of communism is about how the proletariat are born into a caste and can never make their life better. But in the US you can be poor and become rich.
So what it comes down to is: is it worth it? To start a revolution, change a system that has worked very well for hundreds of years, possibly destroy democracy for a certain amount of time (if the revolution is violent, the possibility the leader that takes over
might not reinstall democracy, maybe have to re-write some laws, have to destroy and rebuild much property (the mansions, etc. must be destroyed and the poor housing areas definitely must be destroyed or else the purpose has been defeated. The poor would still end up living together and forming one of the 'ghettos'
unless their housing is changed and they are spread out throughout the population) and just any of the symptoms of having a radical change in government: all to help a small fraction of the population and make us feel better about our jobs?
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