Will some sort of Nazism take control of the US if a major terrorist attack occurs?

[JCG]

Nazism? Not at all.

Fascism? Slightly more probable, but still not really.

Gradual but limited repression and an equivalent reduction of rights for a temporary period (which may be shorter or longer, depending on a lot of stuff)? It's definitely probable, but again, a lot depends on the circumstances of the attack, the administration, etc..

[Imran Siddiqui]

since we were already there, and since large parts of the country were rebelling against the gov't, we should've finished the job.

Again, would have been contrary to UN mandate. It seems the lefties want the US to violate UN mandates sometimes but not others .

Actually, it will not be Nazism but a quasi-religious right-wing state more akin to a Christianized version of Iran.

I didn't say the US was quasi-fascist... I said it was on its way to quasi-fascism.

The paranoid wackos have entered the building. Yes, a Christian version of Iran, because, of course, the US was NEVER more religious than this point in history .

No, because the United States has no tradition of dictatorships, monarchy (they never exerted control over the colonies), etc... to at all precedent some kind of Nazi take over of the country. While other countries that have had dictatorships (Germany, Japan, Italy, etc) all have had traditions of oligarchy/dictatorship to warrant it.

And believe it or not, but the religious groups that founded the US (puritains, quakers, etc...), while hardliners, were actually socially very progressive, ie against slavery, against poor laws (throw poor in jail), for womens suffrage, for black slave compensation (as early as the mid 1700s for the Quakers).

So in other words, even though anything is possible in theory, the chances of anything like that coming to fruition in the United States today are logically and historically insignificant.

I quote this post, because it is a wonderful counter to the wackos on this thread convinced an American Hitler is coming up right now

[Mr. Harley]

Imran, read the Patriot Act. Then look at Ashcroft's wish list for the Patriot Act II. Then look at the stated opinions of the various judges Bush is grooming for the Supreme Court. He clearly stated that Scalia and Thomas are his kind of justices. Personnel liberty is under a real threat from this administration and the post World Trade Center fear hype.

Also, I never said that we are in greater danger than ever before. Both the Lincoln and Roosevelt adminstrations were major threats to liberty, and ask Native Americans about the Jackson adminstration. The McArthy era has alot in common with today, and engaged in the same types of assault on personnel freedom, using the same rhetoric and smear attacks on their opponents. If you want to look at conservative Christian based intolerance, let me remind you that the Constition specifies there can be NO religious test for office. Now I wonder why they would put that clause in there. Just for decoration, I guess .

Alot of what happens depends on the next five years. If the Bush adminsitration continues in power, along with the increasing radicalization of the Republican party with deliberate targeting of Republican moderates, coupled with Neoconservative/Republican control of the federal legislature, personnel freedom will be at risk.

We could have five justices similiar to Scalia, and that man frightens me. Go read his dissenting decisions, especially where he disagrees with Rehnquist! He does not believe in individual rights, just corporate, prosecutorial/law enforcement, and state governement rights. Any personnel rights are those that are left over.

Please note, some of you opposed to the idea that freedom is eroding fixate on the posts concerning Hitler and/or Nazis. Straw man technique, only some of us used that example, and Imran used it after quoting me. Selective mismatching quotes of various posters who disagree with you is dishonest - please note I DISAGREED with the Hitler/Nazi example . Of course we are not in danger of a Hitler-esque takeover.

I use Iran as an example, post-rebellion pre-EU Ireland would have been a better example, where a select relegious group essentially gets to vet the laws. I used Iran because of the FISA court provision in the Patriot Act, which definitely qualify as a secret, semi-immune body, which Ireland did not have at the time (actually, Eire - Northern Ireland is an entirely different situation). Look up how the FISA court orders work under the Patriot Act, look up what happened to the peace activists when they were red-flagged by the potential terror database, and then tell me that there is no threat.

Oh, new news item. The Federal Government is now encouraging the surveillance of peace activists, and wants to share/gain similar info from local law enforcement. Except it isn't exactly new,

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2002-11-21/news.html

but now it's official. Now who's alarmist?

[Uncle Sparky]

Guantánamo Bay;
US citizens arrested and held w/o charges incommunicado for months on end for (presumably) suspected terrorist links;
Foreign nationals in the US arrested and held w/o charges incommunicado for months on end for (presumably) suspected terrorist links;
General erosion of human rights;
Terror Alerts designed to keep citizens on edge;
Foreign nationals in the US arrested and deported to nations known to use torture;

... business as usual in the USA ? Not the USA I used to travel to and rather liked ...

[aneeshm]

In reference to the replies to my post , I would like to clarify . It was meant to be sarcastic , for god's sakes . I know as well as you that the US is not even close to fascism . It is , however , becoming more paranoid and closed as a society . This is a natural consequence of terrorism , and will pass with time .

And yes , the freedoms people enjoyed are have reduced , to some extent . Also , an element of fundamentalist , ultra-conservative xenophobia seems to have entered the collective subconscious in some subtle way . This much is evidnet by the increasing frequency of bigots and bigoted ideologies . This is born of the US vs. Them attitude fostered by the wars and the lack of support from the rest of the world .

And the government is also moving towards more control over the private lives of it's citizens , as shown in the examples im my post , and those of shawnmmcc and Uncle Sparky .

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran, read the Patriot Act. Then look at Ashcroft's wish list for the Patriot Act II. Then look at the stated opinions of the various judges Bush is grooming for the Supreme Court

I have and I don't see the big deal.

We could have five justices similiar to Scalia, and that man frightens me. Go read his dissenting decisions, especially where he disagrees with Rehnquist! He does not believe in individual rights, just corporate, prosecutorial/law enforcement, and state governement rights. Any personnel rights are those that are left over.

I have read Scalia a lot. While he frightens you, he happens to be my favorite justice. And, of course, as you have consistantly done, you go off the deep end again. Read some of his first amendment opinions and tell me that he doesn't believe in an individual rights. Simply because he doesn't think the judicially made-up doctrine of 'procedural due process' is actually in the Constitution doesn't mean he is against the individual rights in the Bill of Rights.

some of you opposed to the idea that freedom is eroding fixate on the posts concerning Hitler and/or Nazis.

Well if you read the title, you can understand why.

I use Iran as an example

Which is just as moronic as a Hitler style takeover... in fact it is even more fanciful .