Will some sort of Nazism take control of the US if a major terrorist attack occurs?

[Thorn]

Some people call me an alarmist. I think of it as my duty to warn (remind) people of what humans are capable of.

People seeking power play to peoples fears or hatred, often the line is blurred. Society has developed sophisticated ways of channeling this sort of concept that lead in the twentieth century to the rise of Nazism.

I'm constantly worried about the United States, not for what it is or is supposed to be but for what it could become.

I deeply sense the climate in the United States as ripe for men of untold evil to take power, much in the same way as the Nazis did in Germany.

You want to know the reason why I support the Consituation and am extremely abhorred and frightned when it is threatened? --Simple, the constitution was made to stop the formation of a regime like that of Nazi Germany that trampeled on the rights of the minorities.

If you start picking away at the consitution then the safeguards are lost as well. And don't be SO arrogant as to presume that people even in the United States are incapable of following a Hitler-like figure and movement.

I agree with Thomas Jefforson that: "People who give up liberty for temporary safety, do not deserve it at all."

It is closing in on the most dangerous time in history once again... will people make the right choices... or is the past doomed to be repeated?

You fill in the gaps needed to see how the US can become the ressurection of Nazi Germany... I think all of you are educated enough that I won't have to walk you through it, if I'm wrong all add to this later.

I pray (and I don't normally do that) and ask that you pray that another major terrorist attack doesn't occur in the United States... or so help us... SIEG HEIL!

[Dom Pedro II]

Ironically enough, it was Jefferson who tried to start prison camps for political dissidents during the American Revolution...


And I think that the United States, while not being vulnerable to Nazism as a particular, is well on its way towards a quasi-fascist government... And that's not a shot at Republicans. It's a shot at bureaucrats... from any side. The government becomes more bloated and more intrusive every year. Even those who swear to cut it back, don't ever seem to actually do it.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

The only serious threat for this to occur is for the US to become extremely anti-Islamic. And yes I agree that it is a possiblity. I see it everyday, many Americans don't view Middle Easterners as human, but as evil baby killing mass murders who should be nuked into oblivion.

Its kind of scary some of the things ordinary people express, but hopefully the leadership of the US will be able to hold in check.

[Ned]

Thorn, why do you think a major terrorist attack will result in the suppression of "minorities?"

Also, my understanding of Naziism is more than just simple racism, although the Nazis were certainly racist. Nazism is the result of combining socialism with extreme nationalism. In my view, the Ba'athist Socialist Party was a good example of a modern Nazi party. It would be strange to think that United States would become like the régime we just overthrew in the name of democracy if we were to be attacked again by terrorists.

[Monk]

The U.S won't evolve into Nazi Germany but I have to admit I'm concerned regarding the outcome of the post-Sept. 11 outbreak of nationalism. I kind of get the impression that it's difficult to get, say, a pacifist point across without triggering some sort of massive "you don't support the troops" reaction from people. If that perception of things is correct, that's a problem for sure, no matter what your opinion on the matter is.

But on the Franklin part, well that quote is just so used and abused by now... no, I'm not trying to start another taxes-is-theft discussion, but really, you'd have to be a Floydo-Berzerkian hyperlibertarian before you're qualified to use that quote.

Ned, the last Nazis that took the idea of socialism seriously were killed in thirty-something shortly after Hitler came to power. You don't think the Nazis had nice ties to the corporate machine? It's just a name.

[Ned]

Monk, the Nazi's were indeed coopted to a degree by German industrialists. Still they brought Germany a national health-care system, the Volkswagen, People's resorts and People's cruises, the autobahn in a lot of other pro-Common Man initiatives. The Nazis were enormously popular in Germany for a reason.

As to their relationship with industry, they simply controlled it. They instituted wage and price controls, profit controls and had Nazis on all Board of Directors.

The Nazis were not socialists in name only.

[Monk]

Personally, I wouldn't regard a country socialist per definition just because it had, say, price and wage controls, gov't financed highway building and national health care. But I reckon you could be right if your definition of the term is to be followed. I guess a word that it's been used for anything from the Scandinavian system or Ralph Nader to Stalin and Hitler can really mean anything you want it to.

[Ned]

The only difference that I can see between the NAZI form of socialism and the Marxist form is that the latter calls for the ownership of major businesses. Other than that, they were/are pretty much the same thing.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Monk
Personally, I wouldn't regard a country socialist per definition just because it had, say, price and wage controls, gov't financed highway building and national health care. But I reckon you could be right if your definition of the term is to be followed. I guess a word that it's been used for anything from the Scandinavian system or Ralph Nader to Stalin and Hitler can really mean anything you want it to.

Of course, for a country to be socialist, it has to be like Scandanavia , which of course is a evil socialist/communist land where nobody works, everybody is on welfare, and people do nothing but have premarital sex, do drugs, and play volleyball all day

[Bosh]

The Nazis were not socialists in name only.

If the Nazis were socialists you'd expect people with socialist viewpoints to vote for them right? Well if you look at elections results in the decade before the Nazi's took power the combined SocDem/Commie vote stays about stable until right about the end (although Commies get stronger and SocDems get weaker) and voter turnout stays relatively stable. So where did the Nazi votes come from? Its pretty easy to see, as the Nazi votes go up votes for moderate/pro-capitalist parties go down. Also Nazis always did horribly with the most traditional socialist slice of the population, industrial laborers and instead did very good with people like teachers (go figure) and, to a somewhat lesser extent, farmers no exactly the sort of people who had traditionally been socialists in Germany at all.
There was a socialist wing of the Nazi party but it never enjoyed any real broad base of support and got squished by Hitler who was never very socialist at all.

[Ned]

The commie/socialists were not nationalists. They were appeasers and internationalists. Nationalism is what divided the two camps.

[Odin]

The US is already becoming fascist, with 9/11 being the excuse. Basically, you are a terrorist if you criticise King George now. If the Neo-cons try to make Bush de facto dictator a bullet from my rifle is going to be in Shrub's head!

[Pekka]

Odin, Are you trying to imply, that the US is in fact fascist, and was only looking for a reason (9/11) to justify it to come out of the closet? If so, how have you come to this? IMO it's only natural to 'support the troops' when you have your boys somewhere, no matter what. Support for presidents choices are another matter, that people shouldn't support no matter what he decides to do.

I don't see the big problem with Georges decisions. After all, as the president his number one.. number one duty is to protect the citizen. It comes before anything else. He has two choices. Either go after baddies around the world and while at it, blow few dictators out of the way too. The other choice is to draw troops from many countries, if that is seen one of the reasons of terrorism and their anger. By pulling troops, there are no guarantees what's going to happen, but one thing is sure and that is, that the balance of things changes around the world, and it is unpredictable move and definitely not risk free. It can cost dearly, even more than going after baddies in their own countries and getting some bad PR while at it from various places.

Anyway, these are only my opinions and not proved facts. You have your opinions and you base them on your experiences. So I'm not really here to argue with you about the presidents decisions.

But even if I was dissent there, I wouldn't say words like that, because those are dangerous. Most of us would guess that you're only talking loud, but who knows, maybe someone monitors and takes this more seriously. Or maybe someone feels like it is his/her duty to inform about what you just said......

.

Just wanted to point that out. Not here to argue.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Pekka
Odin, Are you trying to imply, that the US is in fact fascist, and was only looking for a reason (9/11) to justify it to come out of the closet? If so, how have you come to this? IMO it's only natural to 'support the troops' when you have your boys somewhere, no matter what. Support for presidents choices are another matter, that people shouldn't support no matter what he decides to do.

I was exaggerating, but the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, and Bush is using the old nationalist trick of getting people to thing that you have to support thw war to support your troops. Ashcroft and his BS reminds me of J. Edgar Hoover and the Commie witch hunts of the late 40's and early 50's. Now it is people who are against the Neo-Con agenda and PNAC. I wish the crap Bush is doing comes to light and he rots in jail!

[Pekka]

Odin, yeah.. I don't know too much about the Patriotic Act, and I'm not a citizen either so I just give up and let you continue from here on .