Dubya signs anti-abortion bill

[Sava]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


I guess the American Medical Association must be ignorant too then.

they are because "partial birth abortion" is a non-existent procedure...

[Shi Huangdi]

OK, Late Term pregnancies.

[Bereta_Eder]

bush is a religious fundamentalist. at least maybe the irish americans catholics will be happy

[Sava]

Disregarding Doctors
By P.G. Gandy

Most legislation moves through Congress without being much remarked on by those who do not consider themselves affected. While lobbyists cluster around offices after every conference, the average American goes about her daily life unperturbed.

So it appears to be with the reconciliation process between the House and Senate bills regarding a ban on specific abortion procedures. Groups like the Feminist Majority Foundation track the changes in language carefully, but the rest of us aren't paying attention. We should be.


The combination of doctors and "partial birth abortion," medically known as a dilation and extraction (D&X), makes the ban passed by the House deeply problematic.

Women do not come into a clinic saying, "I think I'll have a D&X instead of a D&E (dilation and evacuation) today." Abortion providers make that decision based on how the patient presents.


If the D&X seems less hazardous than a D&E would be, they choose the D&X because of the imperative of "do no harm" -- or, as it has been revised for surgery (due to the necessity of incisions), "do no more harm than good." If the D&E appears to be suitable, it is performed.


A woman wakes up from the anesthesia and only knows the difference if the D&E went wrong and the additional introductions of medical instruments into the woman's body, or the broken bones of the fetus, have perforated her uterus or vagina.


If this ban becomes law, it will remove medical judgment completely. The House of Representatives has decided, against the advice of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, that D&X is never medically necessary.


Of course it isn't medically necessary -- almost always, if you can do a D&X, you can do a D&E. The problem is that D&X sometimes is medically preferable, when it poses less danger to the patient than the alternative procedure does.


The other PR problem with this ban, which probably is what got the American Medical Association to oppose it, is that it puts criminal penalties on doctors who use a safer procedure if they think it is indicated. Two years of prison.


This is a mistake by the House. Had I been such a conscienceless moron as to write this legislation, I would have made the penalty the immediate and permanent revocation of the physician's medical license.


A doctor who loses his license is a disgraced person, not even a proper doctor anymore; a doctor in prison for doing his duty as a physician by providing the best treatment is a martyr, a rallying cry, a cause celebre.


But the anti-choice advocates have won the naming battle, no doubt about that, and in the process have further muddied public understanding of the procedure.
"Partial Birth" implies that the fetus being aborted by the procedure is viable, i.e. capable of being born and surviving instead of being dead shortly after removal from the uterus, when generally it is no such thing.


People who hear about D&X vs. D&E can't figure out why one procedure is being banned while the other remains legal. There is a kind of symbolic difference in that D&X has the fetus partially removed from the uterus, while D&E has it die entirely inside the woman's body.


But the fetus is no closer to a viable birth regardless of which procedure is used; the only practical difference is the woman's health. We now know where Congress's priorities are: symbolism over safety.

http://www.ospolitics.org/healthenv/archives/2003/09/25/disregardi.php

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists is against the banning of the D&X procedure that is in question. http://www.acog.org/

[rah]

Even as a pro-choice proponent, I'm pleased that a law that will prohibit

.... in which a fetus is partly delivered before being killed, usually by having its skull punctured....

has been signed. WHATEVER THEY CALL IT.


I don't see it as slipping down the slope. I see it as prohibiting an inhumane form of abortion.

[Sava]

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) continues to oppose state or federal legislation known as so-called "partial birth abortion" bans. "Partial birth abortion" is a non-medical term apparently referring to a particular abortion procedure known as intact dilatation and extraction (intact D&X, or D&X), a rare variant of a more common midterm abortion procedure know as dilatation and evacuation (D&E).

In June 2000, the US Supreme Court struck down a Nebraska "partial birth abortion" law in the case of Stenberg v. Carhart, ruling that the law violated the US Constitution by (1) failing to provide any exception "for the preservation of the health of the mother," and (2) being so broadly written that it could prohibit other types of abortion procedures such as D&E, thereby "unduly burdening a women's ability to choose abortion itself."

from http://www.acog.org/from_home/public...nr02-13-02.cfm

the fact is, this decision should be left to the doctors, not some corrupt politician trying to pander to the extremists on the right...

[Shi Huangdi]

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/SFL/Sprang.htm

[Sava]

Originally posted by rah
Even as a pro-choice proponent, I'm pleased that a law that will prohibit

.... in which a fetus is partly delivered before being killed, usually by having its skull punctured....

has been signed. WHATEVER THEY CALL IT.


I don't see it as slipping down the slope. I see it as prohibiting an inhumane form of abortion.

It's not an "inhumane" form of abortion. Read up on the differences between D&X and D&E abortions. D&X (so called "partial birth") procedures are only done when their is a health risk to the mother of doing the internal procedure.

Rah, please don't fall victim to the scare and horror campaign these pro-life nuts are waging.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by rah
Even as a pro-choice proponent, I'm pleased that a law that will prohibit

.... in which a fetus is partly delivered before being killed, usually by having its skull punctured....

has been signed. WHATEVER THEY CALL IT.


I don't see it as slipping down the slope. I see it as prohibiting an inhumane form of abortion.

Yeah, it's already banned here IIRC possibly excepting situations where it's to save the mother's life... not sure on that.

[Shi Huangdi]

Step 1
Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grasps the baby's leg with surgical forceps.




Step 2
The abortionist inverts the baby's into breach position, and then pulls her into the birth canal.



Step 3
The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head. He takes a pair of metzenbaum scissors, and jams them into the base of the baby's skull. He opens the scissors to form a hole, inserts a suction catheter, and removes the baby's brain.

[Sava]

Shi: well the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, representing over 40,000 OBGYN's across the country disagrees with your assertion that the procedure isn't ever a medical necessity

[Sava]

yes, it's not a pretty procedure... but IT IS ONLY DONE TO SAVE THE WOMAN'S LIFE

[Ming]

Typical sava troll... "Dubya signs anti-abortion bill", tries to make it look like Bush has signed a bill eliminating all abortions instead of just one brutal version that most people can agree is wrong.

Your trolls are getting boring Sava...

[Shi Huangdi]

And the American Medical Association, which represents the Medical community as a whole, agrees with my assertion.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ming
Typical sava troll... "Dubya signs anti-abortion bill", tries to make it look like Bush has signed a bill eliminating all abortions instead of just one brutal version that most people can agree is wrong.

Your trolls are getting boring Sava...

what troll? that's the title of the MSNBC article... write them and complain about the troll

edit: oh yeah, I replaced Bush with Dubya...