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UC Berkely Says 14 Million American Jobs @ Risk

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kidicious

    You only stated that you did that. You told a lie. So I ask again if you impressed yourself.

    At the very worst I read something in your poorly written post that might not have been there. At best, you admitted to what I told Dan earlier in this thread:

    It's arguments like these that make me realize that the Left, despite how they want to portray themselves, are the true reactionaries in this society, a ideology based upon the principle of "to each, his place."


    I impress myself rather easily - I am a rather impressive guy, after all.

    Comment

    • #32
      Originally posted by JohnT
      New words to the same tired argument spouted by Marx and Engles about an industrializing England back in 1848.
      And yet the problems Marx and Engles complained about still exist. Centuries of capitalism have hardly produced a worker's paradise either. Most of the benefits enjoyed by American workers today come about in spite of big business. Capitalists, as always, trumpet doom and gloom any time they don't get their way. Talk about tired old arguments.

      What they honestly didn't know then (and the modern Left dishonestly ignores today) is that such conditions are more complex and less permament than they appear.
      Kinda like our job market. For the past few quarters, we've actually experienced growth but with few added jobs. Translation: the rich get richer and continue to use their influence to keep things that way.

      Once again, this places an undue burden upon the poor of this world by denying them the opportunites enjoyed by the West during it's industrializing period. Again, is this deliberate? Is it your purpose to keep these people poor and benighted?
      Colonialism hardly ever brings prosperity. Foreign workers are exploited and kept poor for the benefit of the mother country. Eventually a colony can become free, but this is usually over the objection of capitalists and generally involves bloodshed.

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by JohnT
        It's arguments like these that make me realize that the Left, despite how they want to portray themselves, are the true reactionaries in this society, a ideology based upon the principle of "to each, his place."


        I impress myself rather easily - I am a rather impressive guy, after all.
        I didn't comment on this post at all. There is no way you should have gotten that idea. You're just spamming.
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

        Comment

        • #34
          Nah, it's not spam, it's an observation caused by many years of observing people and their beliefs. Sorry, but the fact is that there are some general psychological distinctions between right and left - an obvious one is that people on the Left tend to be more pessimistic and controlling.

          Comment

          • #35
            but those workers will never enjoy the high wages that American workers have enjoyed because they don't enjoy the same constraints.


            Never? NEVER?! One could easily have said in 1850 that American workers will never enjoy the high wages that British or German worker enjoy because there aren't the same constraints.

            And that is an interesting question isn't it? The US isn't the most densely populated state, so why are our wages higher than those areas that are more densely populated? If it is all about constraints of labor, Eastern European countries should have higher average wages right?

            And saying 'never' shows your ignorance. As countries modernize they have less and less children. People who can make more and more money have a higher value to their time. This results in less children because kids are a burden on time. The less you make, the less problem the child burden is. The more you make, the child burden is a greater problem, so you only have one or two.

            This is why in industrialized societies you have 1-3 children per family compared to developing societies of 3-5 children family.

            You start paying these Indian experts more money than they would have recieved (and they are), it will lead to less children and the children they do have will have a higher standard of living, because there are less of them and their parents are making decent money. Those children will get the same (or higher) education and eventually, many of them will start their own businesses.

            Especially saying INDIA will never reach US wages is utterly ridiculous. There is a reason that many say that India may be the next superpower. They have a middle-class of high intelligent engineers and businessmen who are actually doing amazing well in the US market and are going back to India to build something there.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
              but those workers will never enjoy the high wages that American workers have enjoyed because they don't enjoy the same constraints.


              Never? NEVER?! One could easily have said in 1850 that American workers will never enjoy the high wages that British or German worker enjoy because there aren't the same constraints.
              Wages in America were higher. They had been higher for quite some time.

              I stand by my claim. Never.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

              Comment

              • #37
                Chegitz, your reasoning is pretty false. Most of the jobs being shipped overseas are blue collar jobs Americans do not want. Also the article doesn't answer several key questions. Like in Spain, we have reduced unemployment but at the same time have moved operations overseas bringing thousands of jobs to other countries.
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Fez
                  Chegitz, your reasoning is pretty false. Most of the jobs being shipped overseas are blue collar jobs Americans do not want.
                  Americans don't want jobs? I guess none of them will be interested in this article then
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kidicious


                    Americans don't want jobs? I guess none of them will be interested in this article then
                    Many Spaniards and Americans don't want blue collar jobs. They want better paying jobs. Read the whole post before you make your half assed commie like posts.

                    Because most Americans are looking for better paying jobs, the lower paying jobs are getting shipped overseas.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Fez


                      Many Spaniards and Americans don't want blue collar jobs. They want better paying jobs. Read the whole post before you make your half assed commie like posts.

                      Because most Americans are looking for better paying jobs, the lower paying jobs are getting shipped overseas.
                      There are plenty of Americans who want blue collar jobs.
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kidicious


                        There are plenty of Americans who want blue collar jobs.
                        Actually no... most want more money. It is called the American dream, dingbat. We do not live in the Soviet Union.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Actually no... most want more money. It is called the American dream, dingbat. We do not live in the Soviet Union.


                          I just love Fez's method of arguing...

                          Anyone: The sky is blue
                          Fez: Nope, sorry, your wrong poopy pants. Sometimes it's black with little white dots... Get your facts straight.


                          [Contradiction]->[Short Answer Reason]->[Insult/Flame]->[Short Answer Justification]->[Troll]



                          The real question: Is Fez a bot?
                          Monkey!!!

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Yes, and sometimes businesses have to take some of their business to overseas, because they can not afford to grow like that in their own country. They might produce something for example, and they just can't meet the demands and deliver the amount units (what ever they might be) needed. So, naturally you then go to a cheaper country, continue there and still keep your workers in the original country working. So you can grow and meet the demands.

                            It doesn't necessarily mean job losses.. plus, with the growth, there is profit, or at least that's what we are hoping for, possibly creating more jobs back home. Or at least make it good for the stock owners.. and when they grow, there's more tax money too.

                            Naturally when business grows, gets new space and workers from some other countries (cheaper, still not meaning necessarily sweat shops), there are conflicts inside the company. You have to look at the whole organisation of the business, meaning the personel and information systems as a whole. There will be conflicts with new area conquered and workers aquired..

                            The problem is, that we can not see how that effects the whole organisation. It's a big question mark. So, you need to sort out the conflicts, for example if you have 20 gyus doing something for the company in the US, and now with the new invests, you have 15 foreign people doing the same thing, maybe actually being a company of their own. Now the company buys that smaller company. Perhaps they offer more services and skills, extended mastering of something. NOW, there is a conflict. You need to optimize, no need to have the same task done by two different groups, even though they weren't exactly the same things but close enough to each other. Also, it's difficult to predict what happens if you keep them all.

                            The only natural solution is to reassign the original workers preferrably inside the company. Hopefully maybe promote few skilled ones, and make the remaning under them.. if it's possible, if there is no other ways, then you fire them. Because company needs to evolve. You need to have stable information systems happening all the time. The managment needs to have their own system, maybe getting those reports on how things are going, designing, strategies.. you need to have it working. So, you cut the extra off, if it doesn't fit to the model. Otherwise, you'll be soon having a company, that no one knows how it exactly even works, managment chaos, because of all this, one thing leads to another and soon you'll be firing them all because you're bankrupt. And the first priority is stock owners, not workers. But workers should be not treated as just components either, or pawns of the game. Real lives and families, some might depend on it.

                            But this goes for bigger companies usually, though the small ones need information systems too, strategies etc.. they need to meet the demands, they need to remain competitive. Overseas can mean cheaper BUT it can also mean better quality sometimes, more effectiveness etc.
                            In da butt.
                            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Japher




                              I just love Fez's method of arguing...

                              Anyone: The sky is blue
                              Fez: Nope, sorry, your wrong poopy pants. Sometimes it's black with little white dots... Get your facts straight.


                              [Contradiction]->[Short Answer Reason]->[Insult/Flame]->[Short Answer Justification]->[Troll]



                              The real question: Is Fez a bot?
                              That's taking it a little too far... don't be so harsh on me...

                              I actually provided a good point... and my point was basically like the sky being blue.
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Fez rocks.
                                ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                                ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                                Comment

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