UC Berkely Says 14 Million American Jobs @ Risk

[DanS]

His argument is based on the fact that he can find specific individuals who are not better off than they were 25, 50 years ago. It is irrelevant to the Left if one can find 3 people who benefitted for every one that didn't, the fact that not all benefitted equally is the issue here. It's arguments like these that make me realize that the Left, despite how they want to portray themselves, are the true reactionaries in this society, a ideology based upon the principle of "to each, his place."

Thank you for that summary.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Remove the barriers to hiring labor and this is what happens. It's not about specialization. The rest of the world is becoming just as educated as we are, especially India. It's about supply of labor. Remove the barriers which constrain supply, wages fall and there is unemployment. Good for the country? Absurd.

Good for India? Yes.

However, I am in the unusual position of asking a Lefty the following: Why do you consider American jobs to be more important than other peoples'? Aren't we supposed to be one big happy family, living together in peace and harmony? I thought y'all claimed that national divisions are the arguments of the Right, but then... you use them here.

My confusion grows...

Whatever happened to class? Why aren't the rich Americans automatically wrong for not giving their jobs to the poor Madagascarian, especially since we're automatically wrong for not giving them

our medicine
our food
our infrastructure
our money?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by DanS


Thank you for that summary.

You're welcome.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT


Good for India? Yes.

However, I am in the unusual position of asking a Lefty the following: Why do you consider American jobs to be more important than other peoples'?

I don't consider American jobs more important.

I have to go to class though. I'll explain it a bit.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Remove the barriers to hiring labor and this is what happens. It's not about specialization. The rest of the world is becoming just as educated as we are, especially India. It's about supply of labor. Remove the barriers which constrain supply, wages fall and there is unemployment. Good for the country? Absurd.

Comments like the above make me feel safe for the future of Capitalism:

Summary: "There are only so many jobs to go around, and we need to keep them here in America (where, incidentally, I happen to live. )"

It's all about self-interest, y'all. Words are one thing but actions? Actions tell the tale.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Remove the barriers to hiring labor and this is what happens. It's not about specialization. The rest of the world is becoming just as educated as we are, especially India. It's about supply of labor. Remove the barriers which constrain supply, wages fall and there is unemployment. Good for the country? Absurd.

Summarizes the hypocrisy of the lefties pretty well: Fighting world poverty - a noble goal, but without putting my job security on the line.

[Kidlicious]

Communists certainly do not want to keep American jobs at the expense of workers in other parts or the world. It's not about our worker against their workers. It's about all workers against the capitalists.

High wages in the US are the result of a constrained supply of labor here. Those constraints are gradually being lifted as companies find more and more ways to do so. That causes unemployment and depressed wages here. It does marginally improve wages for some workers in other countries, but those workers will never enjoy the high wages that American workers have enjoyed because they don't enjoy the same constraints.

No constraints means low wages. Low wages and unemployment are what is significant to us.

Another point is that lower wages and unemployment weaken demand for labor by reducing demand for the goods and services that would be created by that labor. You need demand for jobs and wage growth.

I personally am not that bothered by this job outsourcing. I just see it as another weakness in the system. The capitalists improving their capability of exploiting the workers of the world which may seem good for them, but it's actually dangerous for the system. The middle class in the industrialized countries will diminish and there will again only be 2 classes.

[JohnT]

"It's about all workers against the capitalists."

My problem is why does it have to be anybody against anybody? Isn't that the same "us vs. them" mentality used to justify horrors since the dawn of time?

Reactionary, I tell ya!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
"It's about all workers against the capitalists."

My problem is why does it have to be anybody against anybody? Isn't that the same "us vs. them" mentality used to justify horrors since the dawn of time?

Reactionary, I tell ya!

Reactionary is right JohnT. You answered your own question.

[JohnT]

So you agree that the modern Left is a reactionary movement against modernity and equality, one that uses the ancient mode of the many against the individual?

Thanks, man. Appreciate the concession.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
So you agree that the modern Left is a reactionary movement against modernity and equality, one that uses the ancient mode of the many against the individual?

Thanks, man. Appreciate the concession.

Are you impressing yourself?

[gunkulator]

All this talk of "efficiency" and such masks the true evil here: subsistence/slave labor. Outsourcing is just a legalized scheme for an American company to avoid American labor laws. Work 'em 80 hrs/week, pay 'em next to nothing and continue to charge outrageous prices at home. There's no way for America to compete with this. Of course, corporate America will get theirs in the end when Indians realize that they don't need American fat cat executives at the top - they can manage their own sweat shops without us.

My fear is that instead of our economy raising up the level of the third world, we will instead be dragged back down into theirs. There are almost 1 billion Indians plus another billion Chinese, all eager to work for far less than Americans and Europeans. Our economies cannot possibly absord such a colossol workforce and maintain any decent standard of living.

[JohnT]

Outsourcing is just a legalized scheme for an American company to avoid American labor laws. Work 'em 80 hrs/week, pay 'em next to nothing and continue to charge outrageous prices at home.

New words to the same tired argument spouted by Marx and Engles about an industrializing England back in 1848. What they honestly didn't know then (and the modern Left dishonestly ignores today) is that such conditions are more complex and less permament than they appear.

Once again, this places an undue burden upon the poor of this world by denying them the opportunites enjoyed by the West during it's industrializing period. Again, is this deliberate? Is it your purpose to keep these people poor and benighted?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Are you impressing yourself?

No. Getting you to admit the true nature of your ideology is depressingly easy.

Leftism is a reactionary philosophy that is best suited in a psychological environment of fear and caution, an anal-retentive philosophy which tries to ensure that all variables are properly accounted for before taking the smallest step. No wonder Leftist countries ossify - they're ideologically and psychologically primed to be scared in trying anything new and bold.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT


No. Getting you to admit the true nature of your ideology is depressingly easy.

You only stated that you did that. You told a lie. So I ask again if you impressed yourself.