Holy ****! (Iraq) Helo shot down, up to 35 aboard, 20+ casualties

[HershOstropoler]

The dear leader is a great planner.

Btw, after Bush said that his Iraq strategy works, a local newspaper had a picture of him in that story with the subtitle: "George Bush, strategist". Almost broke down laughing....

[MichaeltheGreat]

How did you resist?

I'd have fallen on the floor laughing at that, myself.

[HershOstropoler]

I held on to the table.

[Kropotkin]

Mtg: So you've had a good look at the map and made some assumptions that people outside the triangle woun't help. What about Bagdad?

[Gatekeeper]

Hmm ... I'm not military, but doesn't this incident make the case for bringing in more heavy ground divisions rather than putting so much of our faith, so to speak, on special forces and air power?

It's my opinion that special forces and air power have a crucial role in Iraq and other theatres of operation (Afghanistan, et al.), but we seem to be relying on them too much while not bringing in enough troops to actually hold the ground. Same goes with gee-whiz technology — it's all great, but in the end, isn't it necessary to have a lot of ground troops present in order to keep a grip on what they've paid in blood, sweat and tears to gain in the first place?

Gatekeeper

[Theben]

Originally posted by NeOmega
It is almost as if OBL is hunting America as his next big game.

Gee, ya think?

They[islamic fundamentalists]- and notably Osama bin Laden- interpreted the collapse of the Soviet Union in a different way. In thier perception it was they, not America, that had won the Cold War. In their eyes, the Soviet Union was not the benign helper in the common struggle against the Jews and the Western imperialists but rather the fountainhead of atheism and unbelief, the oppressor of many millions of Muslim subjects, and the invader of Afganistan. As they saw it...it was their struggle in Afganistan that had defeated the mighty Red Army and driven the Soviets to defeat and collapse. Having disposed of the more ferocious and more dangerous of the two infidel superpowers, their next task was to deal with the other, the United States, and in this war the compromisers were tools and agents of the infidel enemy. For a variety of reasons, the Islamic fundamentalists believed that fighting America would be a simpler and easier task.[emp added]. In their view, the United States had become morally corrupt, socially degenerate, and in consequence, politically and militarily enfeebled.

--Bernard Lewis, The Crisis of Islam, pp. 62-63.

So we're also stuck in the situation, now having thrown down the gauntlet, of emboldening the fundys if we lose or withdraw early, which would encourage more terrorism as well. So we have to win, otherwise we're effed.

[Theben]

Originally posted by NeOmega
I really don't see Iraqis doing the suicide bombings, as they were a more secular ISlam, but losing a family member has driven others to such bombings....

That might make it easier. The Quran is very specific about martyrdom, in that it can only be achieved if the martyr is killed by another. The act of suicide will always end in Hell.

[Theben]

From the same book:

Islamic law books are very clear on the subject of suicide. It is a major sin and is punished by eternal damnation in the form of the endless repetition of the act by which the suicide killed himself. The following passages, from the traditions of the Prophet...

-p. 153

...which goes on to list various methods of suicide and what happens but I'll skip that. Basically Muhammad hisself said that suicide is a no-no, which is why I don't get how the Fundys think that suicide will get them to paradise.
OTOH, it's heart warming to think that the 9/11 bombers are being blown to bits for eternity.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Space05us
First they welcome us then they celebrate when we are killed, as far as Im concerned they can go **** themselves.

This might come as a surprise, but there are more than two Iraqis and they are not all Borg-like drones.

[Kirnwaffen]

Hmm ... I'm not military, but doesn't this incident make the case for bringing in more heavy ground divisions rather than putting so much of our faith, so to speak, on special forces and air power?

I don't think so. What we have on the ground right now are mostly heavy divisions, with the notable exception of the airborne divisions that are there. Very little in the way of special forces is still in Iraq at the moment.

[Dis]

you know. We could leave the country. Nuke it flat. And the problem would be solved.

[SlowwHand]

Glass making capabilities being explored?

[Theben]

Originally posted by Dissident
you know. We could leave the country. Nuke it flat. And the problem would be solved.

You'd have to nuke every islamic country to have that "problem solved". And then make sure all muslims remaining are "under guard".

[Dis]

so you're saying all muslims are threats to the western world.


interesting.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Theben
...which goes on to list various methods of suicide and what happens but I'll skip that. Basically Muhammad hisself said that suicide is a no-no, which is why I don't get how the Fundys think that suicide will get them to paradise.
OTOH, it's heart warming to think that the 9/11 bombers are being blown to bits for eternity.

Because they differentiate these attacks as not being suicide per se, but being attacks against infidels in which the bomber happens to die - i.e., the goal in triggering the bomb is the attack against the infidel, and the lost of life is simply an inevitable consequence, since the attacker has to personally smuggle or forcefully deliver the weapon to the target.

This is something entirely different than just randomly shooting or drowning yourself or whatever, in that the primary, even exclusive goal of these is to take your own life, whereas in "suicide bombings" death is just an unavoidable consequence of the nature of the attack on the infidels, thus it is a death that qualifies one as a martyr.

Fundy leaders have issue fatwa on this matter.