Holy ****! (Iraq) Helo shot down, up to 35 aboard, 20+ casualties

[germanos]

Originally posted by NeOmega
Yes, some Syrian Nationals were caught or killed.... I believe a Yemenese/Yemenite/Yemeni.... but in all truth, you may be right. Regardless, it is only the next logical step, right?

I don't see why it would be a 'logical' step.

For one, if the iraqi's themselves are making life difficult for the American troops, there is not much need to go there as an al Qaeda operative, you could focus on goals elsewhere.

From the US perpective, if foreigners are the ones causing the troubles in Iraq, it means they are doing a good job, since then the Iraqi's are appeased. In Vietnam and Korea (in the 50's) it has also been romoured Soviets and Chinese 'foreigners' were the ones responsible for the stiff resistance. In both those cases it is clear the nationals themselves were largely responsible for the US losses.

I'm afraid (for the US) that it is the Iraqi's themselves are the ones fighting them, and that foriegners play an insignificant part in it. The US would do wise to acknoledge that, since knowing who your enemy is, is the key to winning a war. Blaming it on outside influence, and thereby more or less saying it is out of their control, could well be sticking your head in the sand.

[NeOmega]

Iraqis know their home best, foreign nationals may be a little confused. However, Saddam could have hired a good group of mercenaries to teach the tactics used in Afghanistan.

Very strange, I had always assumed it was a mix of foreign nationals and Iraqis. I really don't see Iraqis doing the suicide bombings, as they were a more secular ISlam, but losing a family member has driven others to such bombings....

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Hurricane
I would say that if someone is to blame for the situation in Iraq today, it is the CIA and intelligence in general. It seems nobody knows who really is the enemy, and that means that the occupation troops really are good for nothing more than crowd control and being sitting ducks. That is not something that will end the violence, but rather the opposite.

No, the President is in charge of the CIA. And the CIA was against this war from the onset. Now there is a political feud brewing between the few.

It is kind of sad, but I feel like this presidency is the worst bumbled mess ever, and that George Bush actually knows he is a failure at leadership, but still doesn't have the guts to take at least a little responsibility.

And the navy didn't choose the Mission Accomplished banner either.

[germanos]

Yes, i admit the suicide bombers are a strange factor in the equation.

However, the bulk of the attacks (as the shooting of this chopper) do not involve suicide tactics.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by uh Clem


They were going on R&R.

I didn't know Chinooks were still being used. How old was the chopper? (Not that that was a factor.)

The CH-47 A and B versions have been upgraded to D and E with additional upgrades (NOE, night vision gear, etc.) for the MH-47D for SOF use. The CH-47C is now (or just recently has been) upgraded to the F version.

They're still the standard medium lift helo for the Army, but used primarily by Airborne/Air Assault and Corps level units.

My brother's unit in 'Nam, 196th AHSC (Flipper) was one of the first units (in 1966) to go to CH-47s, adding two platoons of -47As to a platoon of Huey slicks and a platoon of Huey gunships. The unit still exists as C Co., 159th Avn. Regt., attached to XVIII Airborne Corps, and is now exclusively a CH-47 unit. A lot of those Vietnam era birds are still flying - approximately 1/3 of them are still around, in the upgraded versions. The rest date from the mid to late 70's.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Odin


Not if you want a secular government, I don't want Shiite fundies ruling Iraq. I want a liberal, secular government with a mix of Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds.

Glad you've volunteered to go over there and do something about it.

[Dis]

Originally posted by BKWM


Why don't we use an aircraft-carrier in the ocean.

too far way. aircraft carriers aren't designed for chopper- and no army pukes are allowed

[Kropotkin]

Is it just me, or does the idea to arm one group to fight all the others seem to be a really, really bad idea?

[Kuciwalker]

It's not just you.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sandman
Helicopters are deathtraps. Don't rely too heavily on them.

Oh, and I bet the weapon used was an RPG. It always is.

An RPG can't hit a helo except at very close range, and if the helo is moving slowly, ie approching or departing an LZ. Most likely, multiple SA-7Bs or SA-14s.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Dissident


too far way. aircraft carriers aren't designed for chopper- and no army pukes are allowed

Yeah, you squids get all hot and bothered and can't contain yourselves whenever you see real military.

[Dis]

What strikes me about Iraq is it is the center of the middle east, and is now the ultimate showdown for terrorism.

Sometimes I think that is good. It is best to draw all the terrorists to one place (Iraq) and then kill them that way. Why chase the terrorists all the way around the world? It is much easier to draw them to one lawless country that is flat (unlike Afghanistan) and take the terrorists out that way.

The plan would be successful if it weren't for two things. The first is U.S. intelligence is lacking, and we can't seem to find any terrorists in Iraq. They are operating with impunity.

and second. Instead of slowly whittling away at the number of terrorists in the world as I had hoped, we may be creating thousands more.

But I still say it is better that these people focus their attacks on the U.S. military rather than american citizens in the U.S. or abroad. I just wish we could make better progress towards finding the terrorists when they enter Iraq.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Is it just me, or does the idea to arm one group to fight all the others seem to be a really, really bad idea?

This is why I've been saying for a while we need to put in two more divisions into the Sunni triangle, and take it apart one city and one area at a time. When we concentrated an entire brigade in Fallujah, the *******s quited down. Let's see what they do with two full divisions taking the town apart, uncovering these weapons caches, stripping them bare of unauthorized weapons, and arresting and removing every ******* we find.

Then secure the town, and move on to the next one.

[Kropotkin]

... and if they are not so lucky, they'll just pop up again as soon as the US Army leaves.

[The Viceroy]

A sad day for the families .. all this politics means little to them now.

However, we must not forget that these guys gave their lives to rid us of an evil dictator. Don't forget in haste, that not all Iraqi's are so anti-American. This crime occured right at the heart of the Sunni Triangle, the area most likely to support Sadam. If the US pulled out, what then for the majority Shia people ? What for the Kurds ?? more than 2/3 of the country are not arabic in decent. Not all of the Arab Sunni's are unhappy with Sadams demise.

Basically, don't let these guys die in vain by blaming the Iraqi people. These murderers are not patriotic men standing up for their country... They are people who have lost out because Sadam has gone, and they are resorting to what they only know ... Death and destruction.

The people of Iraq have suffered for many years under this barbarity .. and they have survived. Are American's so weak that they cannot cope with this for more than 6 months ??? Absolultly not ..

Stick with it guys, your doing a job no other country had the balls to do ..