Leaving forever.

[Chemical Ollie]

Make sure to get one of these body armours and make sure to wear it whenever you are outdoors. The mouseclick generals of 'Poly all want you to come back and tell the true insider story, you know.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2003/n10312003_200310313.html

They claim it can stop a 7.62 bullet (will probably hurt in any case... badly). I've never heard of a body armour capable of that, but you learn something new every day.

What's the type and name of your unit anyway? Or perhaps you can't tell us for security reasons?

[Theben]

Since you will have a laptop, make sure to give all Iraqis you meet a copy of civ2 and the url to Apolyton. That way they'll be too busy playing civ and flaming the OT to shoot at soldiers. As a bonus they'll likely issue fatwa concerning the fate of MtG and Ming once the banning starts.

[Theben]

Army Col. John Norwood, PEO Soldier's project manager for soldier equipment, said all soldiers in Iraq will have body armor by December.

"The feedback we've received from individual soldiers is that body armor is very effective, and it's a very highly valued item over there," he said. "The senior leadership of the Army has made a decision that for Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, all soldiers, civilians and contractors will have body armor available to them. The specific mission requirements are tailored by the unit commander."

I've been wondering for years why body armor hasn't been part of a soldier's standard equipment. You'd think that this would save lives more than anything.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Because the **** is hot, bulky, uncomfortable, and if your arms or legs or head are blown off, it won't do you a ****ing bit of good.

On top of that, because it raises your prone profile and limits mobility in the prone position, getting into and operating from low concealment and cover is more difficult, as is moving under low obstacles.

So now you know.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Because the **** is hot, bulky, uncomfortable, and if your arms or legs or head are blown off, it won't do you a ****ing bit of good.

On top of that, because it raises your prone profile and limits mobility in the prone position, getting into and operating from low concealment and cover is more difficult, as is moving under low obstacles.

So now you know.

Why doesn't the DoD propaganda say that? 16.4 pounds, that's about 10 kg, right? Still quite heavy, but a significant improvement over previous models.

I bet those who were saved by it did not regret having it on.

[Theben]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Because the **** is hot, bulky, uncomfortable, and if your arms or legs or head are blown off, it won't do you a ****ing bit of good.

On top of that, because it raises your prone profile and limits mobility in the prone position, getting into and operating from low concealment and cover is more difficult, as is moving under low obstacles.

So now you know.

Isn't that just the old kevlar vests? I thought we had newer materials available at low costs years ago.

And it may raise your prone profile, but I'd rather be shot in the armored back than shot w/o armor.

Do we have any specs re: casualties caused by shrapnel/bullets vs. others (mines, large concussive force)?

[DarkCloud]

good luck.

[Lonestar]

Oerdin

I can only wish you luck on your next great adventure. It sounds like you're doing all the smart things, things that can only help your job as a Civil Affairs-type. Maybe you can straighten a few things out while you're there.

I would like to remind you of something Union Major General Joshua Lawerance Chamberlain once said; "War brings out the best in good men and the worst in bad ones". I'm sure that when the sh*t hits the fan, your best will shine through and it'll be enough to get you home so you can tell us about it.

Oh yeah, and in the unlikely event you snag Saddam Hussein and that $ 25 million or so reward, remember who showed up to the SD Apolymeet!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
What's the type and name of your unit anyway? Or perhaps you can't tell us for security reasons?

The US Army is issuing everyone Ranger Body Armor (RBA for short) which is a double thick flak vest reinforced with large ceramic plates in both the front and back. Supposedly the plates will stop a 7.62mm round but the flak vest part is no good for small arms fire. It will only stop the odd grenade fragment.

I'm in the 304th Psyop Co which is a part of the 7th Psychological Operations Group. Technically it is a Special Operations Force (SOF) so we do get slightly better equipment and a bit more freedom then the average GI.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Theben
I've been wondering for years why body armor hasn't been part of a soldier's standard equipment. You'd think that this would save lives more than anything.

RBA has been standard issue to all US soldiers since the at least the Panama invasion. Everyone in Bosnia & Kosovo got RBA and I'm sure everyone in Iraq has RBA. It does have all of the downsides that MtG spoke about and it weights in about about 35lbs to boot. As an added detraction it is also bulky and uncomfortable as hell.

Still, it will be a standing order to wear it and I'm not likely to take it off unless I'm on base.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Ok, they've given me the final virdict so it looks like I will be going to northern Iraq. It looks like I'll be shipping out for Fort Carson, Colorado this Sunday where I'll be doing predeployment training then I'll get to come home for Thanksgiving after which they're sending me to Fort Hunter-Liggett, California for three weeks.

Northern Iraq: hope you do well there. As far as Hunter-Liggett is concerned, why I spent 3 months there testing the now defunct Sgt. York Air Defense system. Towards the end of those 3 months why cows were looking mighty good, as women were few and far between out there!


D

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Theben


Isn't that just the old kevlar vests? I thought we had newer materials available at low costs years ago.

Nope, current issue RBA.

And it may raise your prone profile, but I'd rather be shot in the armored back than shot w/o armor.

There's lots of places you can still get shot while wearing RBA, especially in any significant contact with forces with automatic weapons, or where an enemy has heavy weapons or troops with the opportunity for aimed fire.

Depending on the type of operations and the physical and operational environment you're in, there are cost/benefit tradeoffs, so it's not something that should be mandatory.

Do we have any specs re: casualties caused by shrapnel/bullets vs. others (mines, large concussive force)?

No, but at this phase, we're losing a lot more KIA/WIA to mines and RPG's, and small arms casualties are usually "finish 'em off" or "spray and pray" situations after an initial ambush is triggered with RPG's or command detonated mines. In WW2, about 70% of infantry casualties were blast/fragmentation casualties. That's probably a little higher here, since RPG's are poor man's artillery nowadays.

[Panag]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Because the **** is hot, bulky, uncomfortable, and if your arms or legs or head are blown off, it won't do you a ****ing bit of good.

On top of that, because it raises your prone profile and limits mobility in the prone position, getting into and operating from low concealment and cover is more difficult, as is moving under low obstacles.

So now you know.

hi ,

they should get some undervests for ventilation , and btw , made in Israel has upper arms and groin area protection , extra leg and arm gear can put with it , but who is going to pay for all of that , .......

the price is around 1450 usd , ........

undershirt ( you need a couple ) , washable covers etc , another 150 usd , ........

would the DOD invest in it , ......

some units have them , but not the regular soldier in field

weight 14 pounds without ceramic plates for sniper or heavy machingun

have a nice day

[Pekka]

Oerdin, so you'll be going to N Iraq.. Watch out your back and your friends back too. I'm sure you'll do fine..
It would be cool if you can give updates with your laptop...
ANyway, the best of luck to you and return safely back!


ps. can you talk to officers about Susie Q's?

[Dinner]

I'll see what I can do.