Why I think a communist revolution is a pipe dream in United States.

[JohnT]

"The Romans managed to provide sanitation for people thousands of years ago, and yet millions of people today still do not have access to a toilet."

The Romans managed to provide sanitation for people living only within the Roman Empire (and nowhere near all of them at that) for a short amount of time - we're trying to do so globally on a permament basis: something the Romans could never have dreamed of, much less attempted, much less succeeded.

Perhaps if the Left would stop being such a hinderance and get with the freakin' program, actual progress could be made on these very, very important issues. But as long as you do your damndest to limit the amount of wealth earned you are going to limit the amount of wealth you can distribute.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Who can we be measured fairly when they won't keep their thumb off the scales.

The world doesn't exist in a theoretical vaccum. If the theory can not work in a real world setting, whining about it won't help.

[Imran Siddiqui]

"We have to look at how globalisation has affected these countries. There is a real link between that and poverty levels. They are put under enormous pressure to liberalise their markets, then they lose their indigenous trade to subsidised markets in the EU and the US; and the poorest people, such as subsistence farmers, are left with absolutely nothing."

What a bunch of bull, and shows the article is nothing but crap .

Subsistence farmers don't care anything about global trade. It doesn't matter if food prices rise or fall, because they don't use them.

The only way to improve the lot of the poor in the developing world are increases in trade. All aid given should not be given to governments, but rather perhaps a UN development program which would invest all of it in infrastructure improvements. Trade makes people better off, now if the (vocal) left could simply realize that and work with it instead of closing off borders, it may be taken a bit more serious.

[NeOmega]

Interesting thread.

The biggest reason why there will never be a violent communist revolution, hence no marxist revolution, is that most communists like gun control for some reason... mostly just because the republicans don't. They try to threaten capitalaism with leaflet campaigns. They ignore Mao when he says power flows from the barrel of a gun.

Electoral revolution? No way. It would have to be bloody to get to a one party government. Any other way, and it would just be the powerful getting more powerful.... (as always).

BTW, I may not have said this before, but if I were born in Communist America, I would have no problem with being a communist. But I was born in "Capitalist" America, except with burdensome taxes on the working class, so government workers can have armchair jobs, act lousy towards their "customers", and funnel money and power to the rich. So really I don't consider America capitalist, I consider it a democracy.

[MrFun]

NeOmega -- capitalism is an economic system that can exist in different forms of government, from republics, to dictatorships.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by MrFun
NeOmega -- capitalism is an economic system that can exist in different forms of government, from republics, to dictatorships.

Well I coouldn't think of any other way to describe the American economic system... it is far from pure capitalism. Democracy seems to fit it nicer. The economy is run as the majority of the people want it to be.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by NeOmega
The biggest reason why there will never be a violent communist revolution, hence no marxist revolution, is that most communists like gun control for some reason

You, like most other conservatives, mak the mistake of confusing radicals and liberals. I assure you, communists very much support the 2nd amendment. Sure, we think there should be reasonable limits to what a civilian should have access (no David Floyd's with nukes, okay), but we do not believe in a disarmed public.

On the flip side, we're also aware that an armed public really makes no damned difference. The people of Iraq had the ability to buy and own automatic weapons under Hussein, for all the good it did them. We will only succeed if we can win substantial portions of the military over to ourside. This is obviously not something that's gonna happen anytime soon, but only in the event that socialists and communists have won enough support for electoral power.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by NeOmega
The economy is run as the majority of the people want it to be.

Oh no it isn't. It's run as the majorioty of capitalists want it to be. And by capitalist I mean the owners of industry and fianance, not simple capitalist boosters ike yourself.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by axi
This reminds me of Soviet theorists who claimed that by keeping a large portion of the world out of the reach of the west, imperialism would collapse, by lack of new markets. That argument failed.

One reason is that the places which were kept out of the reach of the west were the ones least crucial to them.

You make the point against your own argument.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Trade makes people better off, now if the (vocal) left could simply realize that and work with it instead of closing off borders, it may be taken a bit more serious.

I knew it. Bush is a leftie

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by JohnT
"The Romans managed to provide sanitation for people thousands of years ago, and yet millions of people today still do not have access to a toilet."

The Romans managed to provide sanitation for people living only within the Roman Empire (and nowhere near all of them at that) for a short amount of time - we're trying to do so globally on a permament basis: something the Romans could never have dreamed of, much less attempted, much less succeeded.

Another confirmation. US grand ambition is to install toilets on a world scale. I knew that as well.

[Bereta_Eder]

On the thread subject, I think communism is wishful thinking in every society with a significant amount of GDP and a sensible distribution of it.

For Axi a book reccomendation: "Pote min pas sto tachydromio monos", tou Kouloglou. Autou pou kanei to reportag xoris synora. http://www.greekbooks.gr/books/showb...?BookID=165076

[Velociryx]

Isn't it amazing tho, that capitalism *doesn't* preclude or disallow the workers to own the means of production.

Capitalism is an inclusive system. The workers can own the plant, either direct or by proxy. Absentees can, trusts could...all sorts of things.

But oh no. Not the big Red Machine. It's our way or the re-education camps! Don't like it, you MUST be one of those elitest capitalist pigdogs.

Thanks, but I'll pass.

-=Vel=-

[Kuciwalker]

I've got a question for che about how communism would handle a certain situation...

Let's say all of the airline pilots in the country get together and decide they aren't being paid enough money. What would you do? If you don't pay them more, and they strike, what would you do? Put down the strike and bring in scabs (if you can; being a pilot requires training)?

[Kuciwalker]

... silence ...

How about this: I'll let not only che, but UR, monkspider, or any of the resident commies answer that one