How do you stop a new EU treaty?

[Az]

We should create two things: we should have, on the one hand, the "EEC", with all the nationalistic countries belonging to it (Britain, Denmark, and maybe even Norway or Switzerland).

Oh, and regarding Israel and the EU: we've been given the same trading status as Switzerland, and Norway. arty:

I wish we could join the EU, some day, when it will become a superstate.

[Pekka]

What about us? We don't get into EEC?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

, rather than by unelected hagglers.

how are the govts of Denmark, UK etc not elected?

The members of the "real EU" could have their own voice within the EEC, or they could speak as one voice. Needless to say, the nationalistic countries would quickly be vassalized if such was done.

Wont you get alot of bad boy points if you vassalize them ?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Pekka
What about us? We don't get into EEC?

dont fell bad Pekka, you can always join Nafta - we'd love to have y'all.

[Pekka]

that's good too. I just want us to join something...

[Drogue]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
even if they are making the wrong decision

What I am saying is that the politicians, the people who's job it is to know the effects of the Euro and the new constitution, are more likely to know what is the best decision than a public referendum when 95% of the population have no idea of the issues and will vote based on a simple "I like Europe" or "I want to remain as Britain", when really that's not the issue at hand. Quite simply, I would trust a bunch of well educated people, whoes jobs it is to know and understand these thing and who have been elected by the people, more than I trust a general poll of the people.

to referendum.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Pekka
that's good too. I just want us to join something...

laska, canada, Finland.. we just cant get enough of those endless pine forests.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
how are the govts of Denmark, UK etc not elected?

Well, here's a short description of how the EU works. There are 3 main insititutions for decision making

- The Commission. It could be called the EU government, but it is not exactly that. It's job is too check that EU agreements are respected (that's why it is the commission which criticizes France for its deficit), and its job is to write new drafts of EU laws.

- The council of ministers. It represents the interests of the State. It modifies the law drafts through negociation -which I call haggling- and it decides (at the simple majority, qualified majority or unanimity). The members of this council are civil servants from the national governments, who are specialized in the discussed issue. Very rarely are actual politicians seating there. And very rarely said politicians, who are ministers, have been elected to the job: in elections, you chooses the party of a cabinet, not its individual members.
As a result, the decisions at the council of ministers are not related to elections, but are done by people who have no relationship with elections at all (civil servants). Said decisions are taken only with the country's interest in mind. Hence haggling between unelected people

- The European Parliament can give its opinion about laws during the whole elaboration process. In some cases, the Parliament's disagreement can even force the Council of Minister to bring changes to the law ! What a fantastic democracy !

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


laska, canada, Finland.. we just cant get enough of those endless pine forests.

An Organization of Pines Exporting Countries could corner the pines market.

[Pekka]

Yeah we have so much tree.. there's nothing BUT trees and lakes here, literally. I guess we're like miniature Canada in that sense. Also we both have a horrible winter

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Azazel

We should create two things: we should have, on the one hand, the "EEC", with all the nationalistic countries belonging to it (Britain, Denmark, and maybe even Norway or Switzerland).

Oh, and regarding Israel and the EU: we've been given the same trading status as Switzerland, and Norway. arty:

I wish we could join the EU, some day, when it will become a superstate.

what kind of status? Mind you that Norway and Switzerland don't have the same status, Norway has signed the EEA agreement and Schengen, while Switzerland AFAIK relies on a set of bilateral agreements.

btw didn't Berlusconi say he wanted Israel to join? I don't remember when but it wasn't too long ago

[Odin]

Originally posted by DAVOUT

An Organization of Pines Exporting Countries could corner the pines market.

[nitpick mode]
Spruce Forest would be more acurate. Most pines live in slightly warmer climates, such as the border between Coniferous and brodleaf forests and in the Appalachians.
[/nitpick mode]

[Az]

what kind of status? Mind you that Norway and Switzerland don't have the same status, Norway has signed the EEA agreement and Schengen, while Switzerland AFAIK relies on a set of bilateral agreements.

btw didn't Berlusconi say he wanted Israel to join? I don't remember when but it wasn't too long ago

Yeah, Berlusconi wants us to join. I want us to join, too.

On the issue of the economic agreements, it's not finalized yet, AFAIK.

[Spiffor]

Az:
But how will we have pro-Palestinian policies if you join ?
I guess we'll have to ostracize you, like if the Israelis were all having the mad cow disease

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Odin


[nitpick mode]
Spruce Forest would be more acurate. Most pines live in slightly warmer climates, such as the border between Coniferous and brodleaf forests and in the Appalachians.
[/nitpick mode]

You are certainly right, but that would ruin the OPEC joke. Would you accept piniferous ?