Rugby World Cup 2003 - The Rugby Widows Weep!

[MrWhereItsAt]

I really should watch an England game sometime to see why everyone is convinced they will be (nay, ARE) finalists.

It was rather entertaining wandering the streets of Wellington just before midnight and realising there were hundreds still out on a Sunday night watching the Wales game.

I felt for the guys in that game - I only saw the last 20-odd minutes, but they did so much running, and with so few breaks! Made for a great show, but they all must have been absolutley totalled after that.

[FrustratedPoet]

England, New Zealand and Australia look OK, but certainly all have their own flaws that some other "lesser" teams have been able to exploit.

France, Ireland and South Africa must all very much fancy their chances of reaching the final, if not winning it.

Wales were hugely impressive today - glad to see they have some good youngsters, this was supposed to be their B team today (obviously it's at least half the A team now, though). I'm confident of us beating them next week of course, but it won't be the guaranteed win I was expecting before this morning. Put it this way ... if England play like they did against Samoa and Wales play like they did against NZ then Wales will win. Hopefully that won't happen....

Scotland are just rubbish.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
I really should watch an England game sometime to see why everyone is convinced they will be (nay, ARE) finalists.

Don't watch any of the games from earlier in this tournament then. Up until the games against South Africa and Samoa we've looked pretty much invincible for the past 18 months against all the best teams in the world. Perhaps we peaked several months too early? Maybe.... we'll have to wait and see.
Thankfully we're not the only major power who's guns have jammed a couple of times in the tournament so far.

[lightblue]

Hmm, until this weekend I hadn't really switched from my POV that rugby union is a fairly dull game with some bizarre esoteric rules (though that still hasn't changed yet, why are so many infringements awarded with penalties, which by the looks of things at international level mean about a 80% chance for 3 points if it is within 40 yds of the try line).

I really enjoyed watching both the Aus-Ire and the Wales-NZ games this weekend though, and i suppose that with the QF being slightly more balanced than some of the arse kickings that have been handed out in the goup phases, it'll probably stay more entertaining as well now.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
England, New Zealand and Australia look OK, but certainly all have their own flaws that some other "lesser" teams have been able to exploit.

France, Ireland and South Africa must all very much fancy their chances of reaching the final, if not winning it.

Ireland won't at all. I'd give them a 25% chance of beating France and a 5% chance of beating England. So a 1.25% chance of getting to the final. France should beat Ireland, as long as they play at least OK, but unless they really pull out the stops, they won't stop England. South Africa have a very hard run in, however I would put them in with the top 3 as ones that could well get to the final. I can't see the Wallabies beating SA, NZ or England, unless they really pull up their game. I think NZ/SA clash will give us the other finalist, and that either will run England pretty close in the final.

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
if England play like they did against Samoa and Wales play like they did against NZ then Wales will win. Hopefully that won't happen....

I doubt it. Wales played well to cotnrast the NZ style, but England play in a completely different style. If they play like that, they will be overpowered. I can't see Wales having a chance against England actually, however the teams play.

I love the whole Northern Hemisphere/Southern Hemisphere run in too.

However with the peaking early, sadly true. We've yet to caputre that invincibility we had a few months ago, where we trounced all, and where our B team was considered by many to be favourites against France. If we get that kind of form, looking at the other teams, when we'll win regardless, IMHO. However we look way to shaky at the moment. If it wasn't for NZ and Oz lookign shaky too, we wouldn't have much hope left.

[LDiCesare]

It is looking like it will be easier to get to the final than to qualify top of the group, since I can't see a match as hard as the South Africa game until the final.

Don't underestimate the French if england meets them. I still see England as favourites, of course.

[Drogue]

I know the French can perform when they put their minds to it, but the England team they faced recently was vastly under strength and gave them a hell of a run for their money. France are a good team, but IMHO there's a gulf between England and the other Northern Hemisphere sides. France would obviously have a chance, and if England falter like against Samoa, they could lose, but it would require and England falter like that to give the French a victory. I can't see a decent England performance losing to France, however they play. And I'm, still hoping the England game will rise in the knockouts, and go back to the game they've been playing for the last coupel of years.

[finbar]

Who would want to be Eddie Jones this week? This morning's press features every expert and his dog's version of the Wallaby team for the rest of the tournament. The consensus? That the Flatley-Burke centre pairing is totally uninspiring, meaning room has to be found for Matt Giteau; that Lote Tuquiri has to be given a chance in front of Wendell; and that our tight 5 is beyond help because there are simply no better players available.

Of course, one of our major problems with our lineout stems from playing two openside flankers. In the past, with Finegan at blindside, we've had another lineout option. Now, we only have two lineout options, every other team knows that, thus our lineout has turned into a sitting duck. The simple solution is to play a bona fide blindside who is also a bona fide lineout option. Except, perhaps Matt Cockbain aside, we don't have a bona fide blindside alternative.

Eddie's mood at the post-Ireland press conference was surly. He knew what was coming in this morning's media.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
The kiwi forwards play rather well,

If you don't mind I'd like to have this framed before I send it to someone in the vicinity of Leicester.

Originally posted by Drogue
Ireland won't at all. I'd give them a 25% chance of beating France and a 5% chance of beating England. So a 1.25% chance of getting to the final. France should beat Ireland, as long as they play at least OK,

Mmm. I'm not sure I'd agree with you there. I admit I thought the Irish were over-rated coming into the tournament (they were 4th IIRC) but that rather narrow loss to the Wallabies wasn't due solely to mistakes on the Australians part. The Irish looked like a pretty capable team out there and they played to their both their own strengths and their opponents weaknesses.

[finbar]

The Irish are a very capable team with a small handful of world class players and some handy ones to back them up. When their dander's up, they will threaten most teams. But it was significant that they couldn't finish off the Wallabies. Their coach talks about a key decision that went against them, but they had ample opportunity to win the match - O'Gara's mind-boggling decision to turn the ball back inside when they had a 4 man overlap, for one example, which was poor vision and poor communication. As fond as I am of them, I just don't think they're strong enough in enough areas to beat France playing even half well. It has to be remembered that they're unlikely to enjoy the clear advantages against France that they enjoyed against us - forwards and lineout.

Cue France to fall in a heap against them.

[Andydog]

Awesome effort from Wales, they played with courage and passion. Certainly they made the AB’s appreciate that you do have to work for wins every now and then. Their No. 6 was man of the match for me – what a blinder he had. Their hooker played outstandingly also.

The Positives for NZ:

Thank goodness for Justin Marshall. He took the bull by the horns and displayed real leadership. Who was the VC again?

Solid return from Mauger. It will be easier to re-introduce Tana now that Mauger has a game under his belt, although Mitch doesn't seem too unhappy with Leon’s game though, including his kicking, so Tana may yet remain on the bench.

Mils was a brilliant last line of defence, regularly making crucial one on one tackles. What a tournament he’s having, he really is developing a fantastic all-round game at the back.

Big Bad Brad has found his niche, winning ball when required, making the hits, and proving a devastating runner with ball in hand. Williams was solid too but would have to make way for Jack.

The Negitives:

Our tight five didn’t perform, the scrum was ordinary and our lineout was left wanting. A real pity considering how positive it was looking against the weaker sides. Clearly they can’t handle real pressure and if they don’t improve drastically for next week’s game, we can kiss bye bye to Web Ellis! I can hear Straeuli clapping his hands with glee from here.

The one area of Thorne's game that normally stands out is his defence around the fringes, but we saw none of that yesterday. He turned the ball over which resulted in a Welsh try, and didn't do enough with the ball in hand. As our captain, he should have played the sort of game Marshall did, there was a distinct lack of leadership from him. I wouldn't quite drop him just yet, but he certainly needs a rocket up his jacksy.

As a team, defence obviously needs to be worked on along with ball security and our set piece frailties.

Looks like So'oialo is finished. Another Mitch back-up who clearly no longer has a role to play. If Collins' injury keeps him out this week then expect to see McCaw at 8 with Holah on the openside.

[Havak]

Some very enjoyable games over the weekend with the one exception of the England game. When we score 17 trys with 16 by the backs you know the opposition is from the lower rankings thats for sure.

I'm not in today but thought I'd pop by to say what a pity for Ireland - who made the call on those last two penalties for them Finbar? And the Wallabies showed old weaknesses - could not scrummage and the line out looked ripe for the picking.

O'Kelly had a stormer for Ireland. With Sailor they did their homework - pop the ball behind him and turn him and he looks a headless chicken in defence? Most worringly the fly half looks a shadow of the man he once? What say you Finbar?

And Wales - boy did they raise their game. You could see the shock on the AB faces when the Welsh somehow went into the lead - but the ABs showed great resilience to seal the win in the end. I think LDiCesare pointed out the game breaking try had a 'hint' of a forward pass though eh?

ITV scored a real coup - their studio NZ pundit was a Mr Fitzpatrick, remember him?

His verdict, and I'm not editiorialising this at all, was "our tight five are simply not doing it". How do the Kiwi lads feel about that? He also proposed the youngest hooker in the sqaud (the third lad?) be given a chance.

The Aussie import for Wales - Cockbain - was a huge presence in the line out and without Jack the AB line out looked rather vulnerable? Thorn (the lock) looks out of his depth I have to say - big and strong and thats about it?

England will need to be very careful - the taffs blood will be up for us now all right.

[TheStinger]

We should beat Wales but iy is not a forgone conclusion.

You can make a case for 7 of the eight Q finalists winning the thing now.

Obvioulsy the Scots don't have a chance.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And the Wallabies showed old weaknesses - could not scrummage and the line out looked ripe for the picking.

I've already vented my spleen on these things. If you recall, I've been venting my spleen on these things for twelve months or more.

With Sailor they did their homework - pop the ball behind him and turn him and he looks a headless chicken in defence?

Yes, but that's been known for quite a while. It was done to him in S12. Lote Tuquiri is a far more skilled player, but Eddie has preferred Wendell. I can only think it's because Wendell can sometimes make those shattering busts. But that's not enough.

Most worringly the fly half looks a shadow of the man he once? What say you Finbar?

Yes, but that's been known for quite a while too. He turns in the occasional good effort, but he's no longer the playmaker he was. Unfortunately, as in other areas on the field, Eddie hasn't been able to look beyond the loyal old hands. The fresh, young talent is there in the squad. They've just been overlooked. And he might as well give them a try now, because the current team isn't up to winning the tournament.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
I make one proviso, though. They have to get Madamoiselle Labit out of the team!

I don't agree though I must admit he is far less efficient with the French team than he is with the Stade Toulousain

Edit. Something I forgot to ask about. In the match against the Americans the other night, one of the commentators mentioned that the French skipper - the hooker from Toulouse - had been suspended during the domestic competition for headbutting someone in a car park. Is this true? If so, what was it all about? I assume Tamerlin was somehow involved?

I suppose your commentators spoke about an event that occured at the end of the Sporting Union Agenais - Stade Toulousain French Championship game last year. The events are simple but the resaons are rather intricated. At the end of the game when the players were coming out of the changing room, Mister Bru and Mister Labrousse (player of the SUA) had a little talk, it degenerated into an argument and...

PAF!

Simple isn't it?

But to understand the problem you must go back a few years ago when a bunch of players from the Castres Olympique went away from this club. Many players from Castres joined the ASBH (Association Sportive Béziers-Hérault) and Mister Escalle was among them. Why? Because the players of the Castres Olympique were quarelling among them. Why? Because mister Labrousse (who was then playing at the Castres Olympique) stole Mister Escalle's girlfriend. Mister Labrousse quitted the CO for the Sporting Union Agenais. At this time, Mister Bru was playing at Colomiers and was not yet linked to this story. The year following the departures from the Castres Olympique, Mister Labrousse's girlfriend decided that Mister Bru was far more seductive and good natured than Mister Labrousse and Mister Bru was so happy with his new girlfriend that he was even stupid enough to marry her. Last year, when the players were exiting the Stadium after the game, Mister Labrousse tried to explain to Mister Bru that his wife was a wh*** and...

PAF!