Rugby World Cup 2003 - The Rugby Widows Weep!

[Mickeyj]

Originally posted by Havak
Much as it annoys certain other posters I have always tried to make sure people here understand that Martin is both extremely intelligent and a very ‘sporting’ gentleman with it. This is classic Jonno.

He certainly wasn't blessed with looks.

[finbar]

Final score:

USA 39 -d- Japan 26

The Americans just too big and strong when it counted.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh I’m not getting into that Finbar. Evil, evil England with hands in the ruck? Naughty boys. How unusual for a top side to do that?

Yes, lots of people do it. But why keep doing it? And complain about the penalties? That wasn't going to stop Samoa.

And now of course we are in trouble because Clive sent Luger on without permission and we had 16 players on the field for 30 seconds. This is schoolboy stuff and deeply disappointing. Sadly I fear the IRB, hardly known for being pro English, may make an example of us and deduct points?

On top of your centre forgetting to ground the ball in goal against the Boks. Mmmmmm. Anyway, the consensus here is that it depends on who stuffed up. There is a sideline official who controls who enters and leaves the field.

By the way Cockbain is a damn aggressive player isn’t he – lucky to stay on the field Saturday I thought? You would never know he was born an Aussie.

No, sorry. He's a far North Queenslander.

And I get to this point having thoroughly enjoyed myself and what do I find:

I have taken ravagon in hand and educated him in the finer points of debating.

On a completely unrelated matter, I noticed the Scotland players up to something during the playing of their anthem on the weekend. As the camera travelled past each of them, a lot of them visibly twitched for the camera. A tribute, apparently, to their suspended flanker who suffers a fairly obvious and uncontrollable twitch. I suppose that constitutes focusing on the job ahead.

Edit. Forget to mention the crowds that have been rolling up to the matches. Quite astonishing. 19,000 at Gosford - NSW Central Coast - for the USA -v- Japan match tonight. 30,000 in Adelaide each day on the weekend for Wallabies -v- Namibia and Argentina -v- Ireland. And Adelaide is an AFL hotbed, there's virtually no rugby played there. And, of course, there's the 80,000 who regularly turn up at the Olympic Stadium in Sydney. The regional areas who hosted the various minnows really adopted them.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Mickeyj
He certainly wasn't blessed with looks.

Mmmm. I wonder was he born that ugly or is rugby to blame?

[Havak]

He certainly wasn't blessed with looks.

I suspect he may not go into modelling when his playing days are over that’s for sure.

Just trawl the web for piccies of Jonno as a young player – or even as late as the 97 Lions – and you’ll see rugby has taken it’s toll on his features all right. Same holds true for Neil Back who used to be considered as handsome.

But why keep doing it? And complain about the penalties? That wasn't going to stop Samoa.

Damned if I know – there was too much talk back to the referee from several of our players.

There is a sideline official who controls who enters and leaves the field.

It is alleged that the English staff did not consult him as Luger was sent on – which if true is suicidally daft.

No, sorry. He's a far North Queenslander.

A Cairns boy? I recall some nice bars in that town.

I suppose that constitutes focusing on the job ahead.

It was a nice gesture – but as you say they should have been thinking more about the XV hulking great Frenchmen waiting to mow them down.

The regional areas who hosted the various minnows really adopted them.

If there is one thing Aussies are good at surely it’s putting on a sports event? I bet tickets have been readily available and reasonably priced? Had it been here tickets would have cost a fortune and most would have been reserved for affiliated agencies to the RFU.

And Aussies of course are very sporting to underdogs - as long as Australia are not playing them that is.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Frozzy
I still remember the times when Leicester had letters on their backs I think I was five then... never was big into English rugby

I have seen Leicester playing against the Stade Toulousain at home (the stadium was then called Stade des Sept Deniers) a few years ago and the players still had a letter on the back. I think that they have changed to numbers 3 or 4 years ago only.

As far as I am concerned I think this is a shame they have changed to numbers as they have thrown away a century old tradition to satisfy those that are striving to standardize everything.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
And I finally worked out where Mr disappeared to on the weekend. He slipped down to Carcasonne to watch the L***** Test between Australia and France!

I was in Ariège in Saint Giron where one of the conditions was to let us look at the Rugby games without any restraint.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by ravagon
That's a rather heavy-handed way to deal with the French isn't it? Germany was rather benevolent by comparison.

Beware Ravagon, England and France are traditional ennemies since many centuries but we are likely to unite together to face someone that is trying to interfere with our beloved quarrels.

[Tamerlin]

A result from France:

Montauban Tarn-et-Garonne 15 - Stade Toulousain 18



I thought before this game that the Stade Toulousain without its international players was like a ripe fruit ready to be plucked by any team in the French championship.

It was the third and last game without the internationals and I must say I am rather relieved the Stade Toulousain managed to win two games out of three even if the quality of the game played was fairly low.

[Caligastia]

My brother (who is living in London at the moment) got to meet Sean Fitzpatrick at the museum he works at. Fitzy was there with two of his daughters and ask my bro a few questions about the exhibits. Apparently Fitzy is on the RWC panel in England.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Damned if I know – there was too much talk back to the referee from several of our players.

J**** is in fudge mode:

For Johnson, the area to work on is obvious, with the team's penalty count higher than usual. The second-rower suggested his side was struggling with the World Cup referees' interpretation of the breakdown.

"I'd like to know [why our penalty counts are higher]. We'll have to look at that as we seem to be doing things that we do regularly in the northern hemisphere that are fine and suddenly we're getting penalised for it," Johnson said.

"If we need to change things, we need to change things because the refs are always right as you know and we've got to play to the way they interpret the law."

So J**** regularly uses his hands in the ruck in the NH and isn't penalised for it? Mmmm. They were penalised for interfering in the ruck last time they were here. Mr Coke was even carded for it. You're a very slow learner, J****.

It is alleged that the English staff did not consult him as Luger was sent on – which if true is suicidally daft.

It has emerged that the official told Luger to wait for the next break in play before going on, but the England bench sent him on regardless because Tindall was down and being treated and the Samoans were on the attack. Luger went on and tackled a Samoan player before the official drew the ref's attention to what had happened. Regardless, the consensus here is that it will probably only result in a reprimand. The Samoans don't want the matter taken any further.

A Cairns boy? I recall some nice bars in that town.

Innisfail. Just south of Cairns. I thought it was the tropical heat that destroyed their brain cells. Maybe it's the booze.

If there is one thing Aussies are good at surely it’s putting on a sports event? I bet tickets have been readily available and reasonably priced?

Yes, tickets to the lesser matches were very reasonably priced, to the extent that the games have been family outings. Wonderful, good humoured atmosphere, apparently.

And Aussies of course are very sporting to underdogs -

That's also a key. The Japanese, the Georgians, the Namibians, et al, have had tremendous support.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
You probably know we have a large Bok, Kiwi and Aussie population in the big cities. Indeed half our bars might have to close without them available to work in them. And most of the lads want to play rugger for England – but we have to turn them down as not good enough to wear the white.

Bok, Kiwi and Aussie immigrants want to play for England?
Sounds like you've take a poll with all of the participants consisting of inebriated Southern hemisphere backpackers in lieu of immigrants ...

* Cut to Havak wandering backwards and forwards between all of the local bars with a sheaf of questionairres, enthusiastically interrogating all of the local backpackers about their rugby dreams, before retiring to a backroom and changing all of the respondees 'preferred country' answers to "England", cackling inanely all the while *

The more serious answer to your point is that ethnic minority participation in the sport is growing. There is a large number of England qualifying players of this description in the top flight now – it will not be long before they start to figure in the national side – and about time too.

I'm glad to hear it. Provided of course that those who weren't 'English born-and-bred' aren't excluded because of it.

Yes – Kilted Kiwi’s (Laney and the Leslie’s) and Aussie Irishmen et al – I agree. But what is the story behind the brothers, one of which plays for Samoa and the other for NZ. This one hums a little suspiciously?

I won't pretend to know all of the specifics behind any of the 'cases' you cited, this included, but excluding one simply because a sibling plays for somebody else is utter codswallop IMHO.
You yourself opened the door to this sort of arguement when you specified an English parent as being a valid raison d'etre in the English team.
It did, of course, occur to you that having a single English parent meant also having a non-English parent?
ie: A valid claim to playing for another country?
Ergo if one chooses to play for England, the other might well not?
[ Note: Certain English pundits have a tendency to interpret this latter choice as the player in question 'not being good enough to wear the white' ].

*cough* Devine? *cough*

Well you've got me there. If this trend continues then, accounting for exchanges both ways, an exponential rate of increase and the relative population sizes then NZ rugby will be half made up of Australians in ... lets see ... erm, carry the 1, ... 824.32 years.
Something must be done to stem the tide!

Okay now you can wipe all the sarcasm off your screen.

It is exactly the same thing you were arguing for in actual fact – free movement and residency across borders at will. How does it differ to the NZ approach to their little brothers (welcome as long as they can carry a ball)? Our residential inter-mixing with the Irish goes much further back than NZ with the Islands to boot.

See above. My whole point is that it basically doesn't occur.

Oh so you want to cherry pick your relationships with other sovereign nations then? The one that you can’t generally pick from (because they are both fiercely nationalistic and can offer decent money?) is a ‘rival’. The ones you want to take all the talent and who cannot afford to stop you are ‘little brothers’. I wonder how former ABs like Michael Jones feel about such a patronising view of their nations?

Not even close. If you start assuming that Islanders aren't Nationalistic or rather fiercely independent then you'll come a cropper sooner or later. They are.
The difference is that there are large Island communities in NZ. Mayhaps those Islanders playing for NZ are playing for them when they play for the AB's?
Many of their players who do participate in the NZ domestic league don't join the AB's.
(I'm guessing here that some of those were offered and refused, er, I mean they 'weren't good enough to wear the black'? ).
That's their perogative. As long as they don't break the rules in doing so I have no objection whatsoever.

[Edit: Oh and I would ask MJ about it except that the 'patronizing' question is invalid and that, well, I'd have to get his e-mail address from my brother (they were friends) who's off somewhere else at the moment. ]

I would object to his sibling playing for someone else if he were English in actual fact. If the sibling were actually born in the country he represents (and it differs to his brother) then no problem. It wouldn’t affect my English born player though – because he is English born still. It’s very straight forward. Your point is solid – but you seem to totally misunderstand where I was coming from.

Back to the same point above. Dual citizenship via parentage. You find it acceptable as a case to play for England ergo you have to accept some going the 'other way'. [And stop looking so shocked. ]
If Wilco had a French parent he, or his hypothetical phantom brother are fully able to play for les Bleus if they wish (and if they qualify as 'good enough to wear the bleus' )

* ravagon makes another blatantly obvious effort to pull Tamerlin into the fray *

[ravagon]

Congrats to the USA on their first ever win (although they've apparently only played ten matches in something like sixteen years). That was their world cup goal and they've made it.

[finbar]

*sighs*

ravagon, you're wasting your time. Alastair Campbell learned his trade at Havak's bung knee. He's a master of the sidestep. Verbal, I hasten to add. The closest he came to sidesteps in his rugby days was being poured down them after the side bar closed. He's sh*tting himself about England. You got him a ripper last time. Go him again. Hit low, hit hard, hit often. And if you need motivation - picture how unbearable he's going to be if they get their act together and win the bloody thing!



Oops!

*wets his own pants at the very thought*

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Congrats to the USA on their first ever win (although they've apparently only played ten matches in something like sixteen years). That was their world cup goal and they've made it.

With at least one Bok and an Australian in the lineup. Though, to be fair, the Australian was born there, grew up and learned his rugby here, and represented Australia at Schools and U21 level.

Edit. Actually, I think it was the Americans' second World Cup win. They also beat Japan back in 1987.