The Apolyton Science Fiction Discussion Group: The Dune Chronicles

[Harry Seldon]

I've read the first book, then got bored with the second right after the first chapter.

The reason I keep from finishing the series is because of discussions like these- that keep telling me how disappointing the rest can be. :|

Don't give up hope. This series suffers, imho, from even-odd blandness. The odd numbered books were better, more action and intrigue. The evens always seemed to be lulls that focused on setting up the next odd book.

[Q Classic]

the next odd book

unintentional humor?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Ix rules. I love Ix. And for some strange reason, i also really like the Tleilaxu, in a way.

One thing I really liked about how herbert I wrote about the bene tleilax is how he described everyone's visceral abhorrence of their kind--a phrase here, a line there, all small drops of the hatred that most seemed to bear for the "dirty tleilaxu". he was never really blatant about it--and if we read his personality into it, we might imagine that herbert I was against genetic enegineering--which is one reason why i don't like herbert II's books. there's no finesse in these new ones. it's blunt.
i liked the mystery of there not being any women tleilaxu. the mystery of what the axoltl tanks really were. the holiness and religion built around "god's language".

i also appreciate how herbert I balanced the mechanical geniuses of Ix against the genetic wizards of Tleilax. the Ixians didn't seem to have a religious zeal around them. they weren't despised--rather, they seemed to be merely tolerated, with a galactic don't ask, don't tell policy as to what the Ixians really put into those amazing technical boxes of theirs. i even liked the bit of humor they threw in, about the name being so old that they didn't know whether it referred to Ix being planet #9, or something else; we all know techies like saying the acronyms, too: SCO == "skoh", IEEE == "aiyee"...
and because the Ixians are technogeeks, one wonders why herbert II and anderson decided to add in a biological subclass in their bastards. why wouldn't the Ixians use robots? why wouldn't they automate as much as possible, especially if their world is largely underground.
and if we want to read herberts personality here, too, we can probably surmise that he wasn't a great fan of the breakneck pace of technology, but admits that we can't live without it.

Pretty good analysis, especially of the Ixians internal needs. I disagree that the Ixians were merely "tolerated", however. There was a serious religious prohibition against the use of thinking machines, one that included the punishment of death for those who violated this law. The Ixians were needed for the building of Guild Ships and a number of other items, but were themselves despised and ostracized from membership in the Landsraad because of the fact that in their society they still used computers.

I recall that Leto II wanted to destroy them a number of times, but didn't do it because doing so would weaken the Golden Path.

[Harry Seldon]

unintentional humor?

I'll take anything I can get.

Did Leto II want them destroyed? He had many of the gadgets Ix had created, like the terminal his agent had and his cart. I don't remember any overt ill will towards the Ixians, at least not like the Tlexaiux (I know it's mangled). It's been a few months since I read the series so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon


I'll take anything I can get.

Did Leto II want them destroyed? He had many of the gadgets Ix had created, like the terminal his agent had and his cart. I don't remember any overt ill will towards the Ixians, at least not like the Tlexaiux (I know it's mangled). It's been a few months since I read the series so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

There's a point in GEoD where Leto is talking to the two BG's and he admitted that, while he hasn't ever given true consideration to destroying the sisterhood, over the past 3,500 years he had seriously considered destroying the Ixians at certain times.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon


I'll take anything I can get.

Did Leto II want them destroyed? He had many of the gadgets Ix had created, like the terminal his agent had and his cart. I don't remember any overt ill will towards the Ixians, at least not like the Tlexaiux (I know it's mangled). It's been a few months since I read the series so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

I don't recall any Ixian characters in the original series, except for the occasional "Ixian ambassador" that gets referenced to in every other novel.

I think that for the citizens of the Empire, the Tlexaliu are far more creepy than the Ixians, who are just your everyday normal heathens. Through the use of biological weapons, the Tlexaliu are capable of corrupting you just by being in their presence and this belief is ground into everybody - they are the boogy man used to frighten children.

And they are creepy. What's up with those damned axoltl tanks anyway... are they what's left of the Tlexaliuian women?

[Q Classic]

hm.. been a while since i've read it, but i thought he was saying it in a tongue-in-cheek manner, seeing as it was really kinda a filler comment. said once, never repeated...

[Q Classic]

And they are creepy. What's up with those damned axoltl tanks anyway... are they what's left of the Tlexaliuian women?

it's revealed, bluntly, in house harkonen or house corinno. no finesse, again.

[JohnT]

Well, since those books will never be Canon in any world I subscribe to, what do they say?

[JohnT]

I'll look up the relevant quote about Leto II destroying the Ixians tonight.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

And they are creepy. What's up with those damned axoltl tanks anyway... are they what's left of the Tlexaliuian women?

it's revealed, bluntly, in house harkonen or house corinno. no finesse, again.

Yeah, tell me about it. He made the Ixians look like these normal, happy go luck folk who just happen to live underground all the time and employ the equivalent of genejacks...

Gimme a break..

[Q Classic]

Well, since those books will never be Canon in any world I subscribe to, what do they say?

Spoiler:

There are no Tleilaxu women because the axolotl tanks are all that's left of them--a non-sentient enlarged womb. Apparently, they can transform normal females into these axolotl tanks as well through surgical means.

He made the Ixians look like these normal, happy go luck folk who just happen to live underground all the time and employ the equivalent of genejacks...

and i still don't understand the genejack equivalents. ix is mechanical. hello? robots?

[Harry Seldon]

Geez. I'm glad I avoided these House books. They didn't look good and now I'm afraid that if I touch them they'll burn me.

[Q Classic]

yeah. did i mention that reason why gurney halleck (or was it duncan idaho? i think it was halleck) hates the harkonnens so much is explained in the books too?

Spoiler:

they raped his sister to death after using her as an s&m (evil harkonnens, remember?) sex slave. of course, they go into some detail with that, detail which really they could have done without.

no tact, no subtlety... not to mention a butchered technology timeline...

[Jon Miller]

I thought the last bit was explained in the real books

(I wouldn't touch the house ones with a 10 foot pole)

not in detail mind you, but with enough information that you got the picture

Jon Miler