27 people killed, 50 wounded by peace loving innocent oppresed individual

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Sounds like a home made problem.

Yes it does, as her brother and cousin were terrorists as well. That's OK, the Israelis blew up her home, so that won't happen again.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
The solution is easy: turn Syria into a wasteland, move Palis there.

Actually you can save a step by merely moving the Palestinians to Syria.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned


18, 27, 6 million? How many Jews have to die before a German condemns those responsible?

What a **** you are.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by MrFun
The suicide bombers are not helping to alleviate the suffering of other Palestinians.

If they were, they'd stay home and blow themselves up there.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sikander


If they were, they'd stay home and blow themselves up there.

um . . . yeah, that's it

[el freako]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
It's different into two manners.

1. The Jewish leadership never acitevely propogated the jews to leave their homes with the promise of a later return when the battles are over.
2. It came first (1920, 1929...)

The first is debatable, I mean in a war (as in 1948) surely the majority left regardless of the leaderships policies.
The second is purely daft - I mean most Jews left the levant well over a millenia ago, surely that would diminish your claim more.

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
1. I don't know that exactly now, and I don't think it matters. The heart of the matter that it was a legitimate jewish town.

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Am I to think that you also follow that scrutiny for the Palestinian side, and demand every returning Palestinian to go exactly to the site where his grand parent used to live?

This definately looks like double-standards to me, however you redeem yourself by showing your true colours...

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
I'm against any future Right of Return for any of the sides. That would mean no Palestinians returning to Israel anymore, and no new Israeli settlements.

That at least would be a start... assuming that you are not talking about restricting immigration into israel on ethnic grounds (the immigrants should become Israelis).

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Currently I support the uprooting of some (most), only as part of a final deal. No free gifts. If we get no deal, no uprooting should take place.

And that would be a good, the trouble is that sections of both Israeli and Palestinian society want it all - unless they can be marginalized on both sides thenthe future is bleak.

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
They had a good claim. Ripping up portions of Germany and giving it to other countries was an utterly idiotic idea. Peoples with strong nationalistic feelings should be kept in one country.

I think you are remembering your history wrong here - Germany was only really divided up after the second world war (indeed the 'german problem' was solved by the ethnic cleansing of over 10m germans from eastern europe).

[Sirotnikov]

The first is debatable, I mean in a war (as in 1948) surely the majority left regardless of the leaderships policies.

Yes, but actually most Arab population points were not attacked or threatened.

Many of them left because they thought that the Arab armies will wreak havoc on the Jews, and didn't want to be caught up in the fight.

If you want, there's an Article by Efraim Karsh, an Israeli-British historian, talking about the way many Arabs left Haifa.

The second is purely daft - I mean most Jews left the levant well over a millenia ago, surely that would diminish your claim more.

I'm not sure I follow you.

I'm saying that in the current conflict, Jews suffered from events which could be labled "ethnic cleansing" first.

This definately looks like double-standards to me, however you redeem yourself by showing your true colours...

Well while I'm against R&R I'm not going to want to completely disband everything Israel achieved.

I obviously want a fair solution, but I'm not ready to draw the map blank, and begin distributing everything as if 5 wars didn't happen, and Israel didn't gain more territory. I'm not silly nor do I claim to be completely objective. I claim to be able to see the objective point. That doesn't mean that my aspirations are to achieve that or that I always argue objectively. I'm admittedly pro-Israeli.

That at least would be a start... assuming that you are not talking about restricting immigration into israel on ethnic grounds (the immigrants should become Israelis).

I'm very much talking about restricting immigration into Israel by which ever grounds we find necessary to keep this a Jewish nation both demographics wise, and in culture and spirit.

There are political states, and there are nation states. Canada and USA are political states. Germany, Poland, and Israel are nation states.

Israel is and should remain a Jewish state, offering full rights to minorities.

There's no reason why Israel should be even-handed in its Immigration policies. No nation is truely even-handed and all have different critereas. USA and Canada want sane productive members of society. Germany and Russia iirc have special laws for 'blood-link' immigrants.

And that would be a good, the trouble is that sections of both Israeli and Palestinian society want it all - unless they can be marginalized on both sides thenthe future is bleak.

I agree.

However I think that currently most of the Palestinian leadership thinks it can eventually get it all - using sneaky strategies.

I also think that following the propoganda and steps taken in the Oslo process, much more Palestinian people think that they can eventually get it all, than who thought so in 1990.

On the Israeli side I see a reverse trend. I think that less and less people think that we can eventually be left with all or even most of the West Bank and Gaza.

That doesn't mean however that more people support leaving the territories now. Many think that now it is crucial to stop the current leadership, and so to speak "de-nazify" the Palestinian population. Re-educate the people who were taught to sacrify their children and their lives.

I think you are remembering your history wrong here - Germany was only really divided up after the second world war (indeed the 'german problem' was solved by the ethnic cleansing of over 10m germans from eastern europe).

I disagree with you.

Germany was really divided up after WWI. Leaving millions of Germans in other nations, often a very large and loud minority.

Frankly speaking, Germany really had grounds to demand those lands back.

However, their intention at the time was more than just unifying lands. They planned it as first steps of an all out conquest of Europe.

That's what I'm saying about the Pals currenly. They have grounds for gaining some lands and a homeland. But I want to make sure they will have no possible way to destroy the whole of Israel afterwarsd.

[Ming]

A warning in this thread as well... stop the personal crap... stop the trolling... stop the spam... Have a civil discussion or I will make sure the people that don't won't be messing up serious discussions for a while.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Germany was really divided up after WWI. Leaving millions of Germans in other nations, often a very large and loud minority.

Frankly speaking, Germany really had grounds to demand those lands back.

However, their intention at the time was more than just unifying lands. They planned it as first steps of an all out conquest of Europe.

Siro, is your statement about Germany's intentions really true? I know this is the position of allied propaganda, but was it ever confirmed by the NAZI's themselves post war?

[Sirotnikov]

Siro, is your statement about Germany's intentions really true? I know this is the position of allied propaganda, but was it ever confirmed by the NAZI's themselves post war?

From the history shows I've seen, according to interviews with Hitler's aides - yes.

Also, if you read a book by Hitler's cell mate during his incarceration after the failed putch in 1922, it describes to the world hitlers plans.

[Ned]

Well, did you know that US propaganda said that Hitler's aim was to conquer the world, not just Europe? They had to do this to justify our aiding Britain before Germany's declaration of war. Sounds a lot like Bush's statements concerning Saddam's intentions to attack the US.

But back on topic. I note that Joe Lieberman, alone, among Democrat leaders has supported Israels self defense. The rest of the Democrat candidates have condemned Israel by their silence and lack of support. Israel really has very few friends in the Democrat party.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news...S-Mideast.html;COXnetJSessionID=1BFd2YD5qg29hf5t7yxa7gCzOOQKiWNg OCn0dmKsihhsBgDJ88Fk!461918832?urac=n&urvf=10654694056290.4676321147545268

[axi]

And don't forget that we are not occupying any country since no country exists or ever existed there.

Yikes! Your thoughts are scary.

Should I bother to read further into the thread, am I going to find more of these gems?

[chequita guevara]

Abraham came from Ur. Send the Jews back to Iraq. And the Arabs too, since they are also decended from him.

And, since they are the decendents of the Martu, who invaded Sumer after the Elamites cast down the Sumerian Empire, we should really consider sending the Jews and Arabs to Kurdistan.

Meanwhile, let's send the Turks and Kurds back to Central Asia.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Edan and LOTM are good but neither is a real Israeli, and both appear once a month or so...

I am flattered.


I am also of course, 100% true red white and blue American - not an Israeli at all, real or otherwise.

Though I AM both a Jew and a Zionist, and try to keep informed about the situation over there.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Agathon


Thanks for the info - the BBC did not say so on the 6 o'clock broadcast.

what, Auntie Beeb forgot to mention it? Oh dear. Why am I not surprised?