27 people killed, 50 wounded by peace loving innocent oppresed individual

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Mordoch - I seem to recall seeing you on the Civ III forums?

Are you Israeli / Jewish?

I think you're mistaking me for someone else. You'd see me under this forum name on these forums, the off topic and Paradox Games portions, and the Official Paradox Entertainment forums under this forum name.

I'm a Reform Jew from Denver, Colorado, USA.

[Ecthy]

Siro, tell Ned all about it, please...

[Agathon]

The identity of the bomber tells us all we need to know about motive.

"A 27 year old lawyer who was recruited by Islamic Jihad after her brother was killed by the Israelis." - BBC News

[Ecthy]

Sounds like a home made problem.

[Pekka]

Agathon, that is sad. But then again, that has very little to do with bombing bunch of random civies.

Why didn't she attack some patrolling soldiers for example? In my eyes that would have made her some kind of a fighter, though it still would be questionable. Now, nothing but a piece of terrorist scum.

[Pekka]

And this is the reason why I'm on Israels side. Well let's say more in Israels than Palestines, since I think they do overkills sometimes too.

Attack civies on purpose, blow them to pieces in civilian locations, that doesn't make you freedom fighter. That makes you a terrorist. Terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

So you say someones terrorist is someones freedom fighter? In this case, wrong. Has got very little to do with anyones freedom to kill civilians. When they start organized attacks against soldiers, politicians, high ranking officers and the kinds, then I call it freedom fighting, and then I have to check my position again how I think about the situation. Now? I don't care who's right and who's wrong, at least Israel tries to avoid innocent civilians and target the terrorists with pretty good accuracy btw. So, until they change the habit of acting out of hatred instead of acting to fight the fighters, acting to kill anyone, child, old people, women and men having coffee or travelling in bus.. .. you get 0 sympathy from me.

[Ecthy]

Pekka I knew you'er crazy, but are you totally nuts now?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Pekka
Agathon, that is sad. But then again, that has very little to do with bombing bunch of random civies.

Why didn't she attack some patrolling soldiers for example? In my eyes that would have made her some kind of a fighter, though it still would be questionable. Now, nothing but a piece of terrorist scum.

I suspect her brother was a civilian casualty. Lets not forget that the Palestinian death rate is over double that of the Israelis and that this person's country is being occupied by Israel.

[Pekka]

I'm actually sick now, bad flue thanks for caring.

But, what part of the post you disagree with or you'd like me to clarify?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Because each suicide attack is one closer to him being exiled or shot.

As long as an evil mastermind is needed, he'll be fine. Unless the peace process starts to pick up again and needs to be halted, or it becomes untenable to claim that he's a super-villain without doing anything about it.

[Pekka]

Agathon, sure, very likely. Like I said it is sad and I mean it. If I was this woman, I'd be so mad and angry I'd forget all the reasoning too and want to make it even and then some. I don't know what I'd do in reality, since I'm fortunate enough to not have experienced that kind of tragedy, but I'd like to think I go after IDF. I could see some honour in it and justify my actions.

I could not justify blowing myself up in busy spot trying to kill as many civilians as possible.

So, this is the reason I have no sympathy for this woman. Well, maybe little, but not too much anyway. There are very few things that justifies killing random people because of personal tragedy, and right now I can't think of any of them. Maybe she just went crazy, which is 99% possibility. So, why not take it on IDF?

[Edan]

Originally posted by Agathon

Lets not forget that the Palestinian death rate is over double that of the Israelis

So more deaths means more innocence?

WW2:
US deaths: ~300,000
German deaths: ~5 million.

::sarcasm::
Obviously, we fought on the wrong side of that war.
::sarcasm off:

[Agathon]

They do that as well, but presumably they want eye for an eye for civilian deaths.

It's just silly. If only GWB would put his foot down.

[Pekka]

Sure, but at least they try to take out the ones behind these attacks. These suicide bombers don't even try attacking soldiers. To me, every single person belonging to Jihad groups etc can be considered a soldier. It doesn't matter if they have killed anyone or not, it is their purpose to do so in the future. So, they are legimate targets, anywhere, any time.

[Pekka]

So, it should be even easier to the 'freedom fighters'.
IDF guys wears uniforms. How hard is it to snipe few of them? Attack the ones that attacked you if you want to make it even.

edit: And I'm not speaking about Palestinians in general. I'm talking about the ones in these organsations and the ones behind attacks. And I'm not talking about their Palestines cause and their claims if their legimate or not, that I don't know, they most of the times confuse me with Israels claims. And basically, I just like to keep it simple. So, that's where I drew the line, and used it to guide my position. Like I said, I don't even wait for the attacks to stop, I just want the attacks against civilians on purpose to stop. I'm not saying I want to see attacks against IDF, so don't get me wrong. But when I start reading about that instead of attacks against civilians, then I start learning more about other sides claims and what's happening behind the curtains.

And I realize this is not something the whole population of Palestine wants, these suicide bombers. But, as long as Arafat does nothing about it, I can't support it. As long as he can't do anything about it AND still stays in power and doesn't step down, I can't support it with my heart in it. I wish Palestine well, and I feel bad when by standers get killed by the IDF, on purpose by some soldier who is nuts, or by accident.. I don't want that either. No one wants that?! All I want is for them all to stop the whole thing, and as of now, I can't be completely undecided on who's side I am. Because of the terrorist attacks.