What really scares me about USUK aggression

[Q Classic]

the reason why oil is not pure power is because it is a resource that can be manipulated.

sure, opec can raise prices. the truly powerful nations can afford those prices, and then go in and clean their clocks to force them to lower the prices.

having natural resources does not make you a natural power, otherwise we'd all bowing under a bantu superpower irl as opposed to in civ.

[MikeH]

Because their governments are kept as compliant dictatorships that allow oil to be extracted by western companies. Just like the US will install in Iraq and just as it used to support Saddam.

Dictator stops cooperating? Get a new one who'll be more compliant. Simple.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If you can corner the market on oil, you can control those who need it. If the US has its hand on it's competitor's oil spigit, that gives it power over it's rival's economies.

If you include the US's production with Iraqs production I'd bet it wouldn't even equal 20% of the world market (does anyone have figures?). That still leaves 80% of the world's oil supplies out there so you cannot really claim the US has cornered the market.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Yeah! Like Canada!

Canada is a very good example of that. Thier military is so sad they are starting to rely on mercenaries.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I didn't say that Azazel did.

Oh yeah, sorry.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If oil equals pure power then why are nearly all of the major oil producing countries so powerless? :hmm:

Because they have dip**** governments, or, in the case of the ME, are delibeately kept fragmented so as not to have any market power. Do you think the West would have reacted any differently if a democratic Iraq tried to annex Kuwait?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
greens in general who think that it 'all about oil'.

Not all of us. I think oil comes into it, but as mentioned by others, it cannot be the main reason, due to the amount of money the war cost, the disruption war would cause, and the relative importance of Iraqi oil. It was a factor, but probably a relatively small one.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If oil equals pure power then why are nearly all of the major oil producing countries so powerless? :hmm:

Powerless? When OPED gave the world the squeeze last time, the US went into "stagflation", and Japanese car companies ran roughshed over Detroit.

I wouldn't say that's powerless.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That still leaves 80% of the world's oil supplies out there so you cannot really claim the US has cornered the market.

This is true, but 20% is still a lot of market power. Considering the leverage that the US has with places like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, etc, it adds up quickly.

It's possible the U.S. took out Iraq in order to get Iraqi oil flowing again, since Hussein showed no signs of complying with the UN anytime soon. WIth Iraqi production back online, oil prices drop, and everything that depends on oil prices drops, and the world's economy perks up.

The point, ultimately, is that oil was an important factor. Unlike pc, I do not think it was the primary factor, however. Honestly, I think the primary reason for the invasion, though, was to distract attention from the corporate scandals in the US and Bush's personal role. Things were looking pretty rough for the Pres 14 months ago, and as soon as they said Iraq, all that was off the front pages, the Dem's rolled over and pissed on themselves, and the Repugs took both houses of Congress.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Powerless? When OPED gave the world the squeeze last time, the US went into "stagflation", and Japanese car companies ran roughshed over Detroit.

I wouldn't say that's powerless.

The point is the Arabs never tried that again because they lot 80% of their economic output while they embargoed us. Add on that the US created the Stategic Petroleum Reserve (the world's largest stock pile of oil) since then and you can see why they have very little leverage. Supposedly with the SPR the US can opporate without rations and without importing any oil for 6-9 months. Now add on that the vast majority of our oil imports come from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela and you can see why the Arabs are really in a powerless position.

[MikeH]

Yeah but if the Mid East stops producing then everyone will be after those other supplies and the price will go up for everyone including the US.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

The mid-east should proclaim the holiday year, and stop the work and focus on religion with governments giving free food for the year to everyone. Just to keep the utilities working but stop all governemtn businesses apart from maintainance...

It would be interesting to see would we invade Saudis and Iran to take their evil-dictatorships doown too and to free the people

[Q Classic]

technically the saudis are a monarchy.

[Tiberius]

According to the World Oil magazine and the Oil and Gas Journal, cited by the The Energy Information Administration (EIA), as of Jan. 1 2002, ~ 65% of the world's oil reserves were in the Middle East.

The figures:

World total crude oil reserves: 1018 - 1032 billion barrels

Saudi Arabia: 261 - 262 billion barrels
Iraq: 112 - 115
Kuwait: 96 - 99
Iran: 90 - 99
UAE: 62 - 97 (? quite a disparity here between the two estimates)

Other big oil rezerves are in Venezuela and Russia (~ 50 - 70 billion barrels)

Now, why would all the big powers be interested in the ME is not for all that oil? Call me an ignorant, or childish or whatever, but give me a better reason first. Why is the US soooo interested in the ME, especially in the oil rich countries?

The world 3 biggest oil reserves are controlled now by the US (directly or indirectly); they have quite a military presence in all 3 countries. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Btw, did anyone notice that Iran has the 4th biggest oil reserve in the world? Apparently they are developing WOMD, plus harboring terrorists, too

[Dinner]

Originally posted by MikeH
Yeah but if the Mid East stops producing then everyone will be after those other supplies and the price will go up for everyone including the US.

True, but the whole point is these guys are't stupid enough to kill off 80% of there GNP. They would be hurt far, far more plus the US can just keep releasing SPR supplies to flood the market for half a year. Six months of no income should be enough to break any Arab embargo since they're all deeply in debt any way.