Is my proffesor a mistaken or do I know nothing about Judaism?

[Imran Siddiqui]

It is written by a Catholic, though one who dissents against many of his Church's teachings.

Eh? How can you be a Catholic if you are against Papal Infalibility (against Church teachings)? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Whaleboy]

The hell is kind of metaphorical. Its supposed to be a guilt thing. I think new testament writers took the old testament references a bit too literally.

Jewish hell rules!

[Drake Tungsten]

Jewish hell rules!

It's not as cool as Shinto hell.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Re-read my post. As a matter of theory, God might be able to accept the pleas of a penitent soul in Hell, after all he is all-merciful. As a matter of practicality, Hell is eternal and repentence there isn't going to happen.

Why should this article taken to be authoritative over the bible?

[Zealot]

Originally posted by Berzerker
I thought "Hell" came from the hebrew "sheol" meaning "grave".

Let's go by parts:
"Sheol" is the hebrew word for grave, and that is exactly what the Bible, in the Hebrew scriptures, refers to when a person dies, it goes to the grave and be without any conscience of anything at all. It ends with death.
In the greek scriptures, the word "Gehenom" has the same meaning, but not literally, because the Gehenom was the Jerusalem's incinerator, probably outside the city's walls. It mainly represents the 2nd and final death, the one those who don't repent will have. Death, not torment.
There is also the greek word "Hades", wich is translated almost everywhere as hell. Hades does mean the same thing literally as Sheol, but if you know about the genesis of the Catholic church you know what happened...

So "biblicaly speaking" there is nothing after death, until someone is ressurected. Anything beyond this has pagan/phylosophical influences.

Edit: fixed the word Gehenom

[Az]

Gehenom is a geographical location. "Gey-Hinom" 'Gey'=valley in hebrew

[Zealot]

Yeah, but in the Christian times there was one used as an incinerator place, right?
I'm talking a bit from head, but I'll do some deep research in case I'm mixing anything.

[Az]

Actually, IIRC, it was used in pagan times as a place of human sacrifice.

[Dr Strangelove]

Gehenom was actually Jerusalem's garbage pit, a valley where the people burned their refuse.

Perhaps the fire and brimstone of hell is metaphorical, referring to the eternal turmoil of the souls that are lost and which will never know love, mercy or peace? Has anyone here ever suffered a wrong that could not be redressed, and being unable to let go of it suffered from a lingering anger? Such unrequited anger often turns inward or seeks another focus, and being unsatisfied will stoke itself to ever increasing intensity. This I think is the root of the word "madness". Imagine then the anguish of the damned, condemned to never know spiritual peace. Surely they would burn inside like a raging fire that forever feeds on itself.

[lord of the mark]

you'll have to ask your prof for his text references.

I presume he means gehenom.

As others have mentioned it is an actual place outside Jerusalem. Like Az, ive always heard it mentioned as a bad place because of pagan sacrifices, not cause it was a garbage pit. Maybe a different jewish trad from Christian trad on that one?

As Az mentions, its more like purgatory than hell. You can stay there for up to 13 months, depending on how bad you were. Thats one explananation of why you say kaddish (prayer for the dead) for 12 months - on the one hand you want to shorten their stay in gehennom, on the other hand you dont want to insult your loved ones by implying they might have been so bad as to need the whole term in gehennom.

OTOH, gehennom is used in contrast to gan eden (garden of eden, paradise) so in that sense its equivalent to hell.

Theres also the wilderness of Azazel, where the scapegoat that carries the sins of the people was sent on Yom Kippur.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
As others have mentioned it is an actual place outside Jerusalem. Like Az, ive always heard it mentioned as a bad place because of pagan sacrifices, not cause it was a garbage pit. Maybe a different jewish trad from Christian trad on that one?

I never said it wasn't, but what's the time span of that? When did that happen? Wich century at least?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi



Not to threadjack, but I can't really let that one slide. I really don't think you quite understand hell in the correct sense, or at least you are getting your impression of it from Christian fundamentalists.

Here is a piece written by a liberal Catholic who nonetheless does a good job of summing up the orthodox position on Hell:

It's not a testament to freedom because your still forced into one choice.

Either be good and go to heaven, or be bad and go to hell. Now you "choose" to go to hell, but what if I dont want to be good AND I dont want to go to hell? Since god made the system he is still forcing me to a place against my will by virtue of a lack of alternatives.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Is my proffesor a mistaken or do I know nothing about Judaism?

Originally posted by Vesayen
of its cruelty.

Is hell even mentioned in the Talmud or elsewhere? Even if it is, my thought would be that the Talmud itself is not holy, it is merely the interpretation of some learned sages, but it in and of itself has no more divine influence in it then me writing a smiley face on a roll of toilet paper.

re the role of the Talmud.

Jewish tradition has that the talmud IS the expression of the oral law, at least the core principle of which were passed down from Moses (see the opening chapter of Pirke Avot) The talmudic discussions are definitely seen as divinely inspired, even if not the word of G-d.

Both Orthodox and Conservative Judaism (for different reasons, since C. Judaism doesnt take the Pirke Avot tradition itself literally) accept the Talmud as binding on Halachic matters - ie laws, genreally on matters of ACTION, ethics, ritual, prayer, etc. The talmud is filled though, with remarks on all kinds of side topics - from philosophy, to medicine, to legends, etc. All these are called "aggadah" and are definitely NOT binding. As you say, just the opinions of learned sages. There is some debate about whether ANY matters of belief are subject to halachah, and are therefore binding. Orthodoxy generally says yes, and CJ says no. This is a big question, since O claims that rabbis who dont believe that the Bible is the literal word of G-d (as some C rabbis dont) are not in violation of halachah, and not valid rabbis, and by extension that any rabbi who accepts the authority of such rabbis (IE All C rabbis) is not a valid authority. C rabbis,even those who hold that the bible is the literal word of G-d, accept their "heretical" colleagues on the ground that such theological questions are NOT matters of halachah IE are not subject to law.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Zealot


I never said it wasn't, but what's the time span of that? When did that happen? Wich century at least?

pre-exile, im quite sure. some time between 1000 BCE and 586 BCE.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Well, we are know discussing the issue of whether the gates of hell are locked from the inside or from the outside.

I believe that God, being all-merciful, would not refuse to return to the love and grant forgiveness to a soul that genuinely sought it. Of course, if the soul had any inclination whatsoever to repent of their sins, they wouldn't be in Hell in the first place. Talking about inviting people back in would be pointless, as such an offer would be declined of course.

I reject the concept of Christianity because of my Jewish upbrining but also because I am an empiricist(which makes me reject Judaism to a degree as well).

I believe VERY strongly in "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" and would like to think in that respect I am more honest then most...... where would I fit in that diagramn lol? I'm a good person who utterly rejects your god because he makes no sense from what I have learned.