Mexicans Hate Texas Boarders

[Japher]

MtG: I am for having unemployed whitey's do the labor. You should know me better, as I accuse all poor ppl of being lazy

When I was in HS I use to pick strawberries after school... Yeah, that was a lot of fun... Got paid what I sold.

I wouldn't mind seeing the boarder erased, but I think Presindete Foxxy Man would

[pchang]

expanding legal immigrants

With fewer illegal immigrants you can give green cards to immigrants who are willing to do the hard labor ag jobs. Everybody wins, legally.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
MtG, do you suggest that we simply "erase" the border between Mexico and the United States?

Not at all.

I just suggest that people who oppose a system they derive a net benefit from, and focus only on punishing the non-white, low economic power half of that system, have a bit of a problem with consistency.

During the Reagan administration, briefly, there was a big deal about spot checks of employers and sanctioning employers. It went away very quickly, under lobbying pressure from employers and employer organizations.

It's also a fashion in bad job markets to blame the frijoleros. We can't kick Ken Lay or Andy Fastow in the ass, but those little greasers in the fields?

[SlowwHand]

How would they feel if we snuck down there, and took their bull fighting jobs?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: expanding legal immigrants

Originally posted by pchang
With fewer illegal immigrants you can give green cards to immigrants who are willing to do the hard labor ag jobs. Everybody wins, legally.

If you give them green cards, why would they still be willing to do the jobs nobody wants, when they'd have the legal right to compete for any job? How many green card holders do you find in the fields? Not very many.

[Japher]

How would they feel if we snuck down their and took their bull fighting jobs?

I can't imagine Sloww bullfighting... Or running across a boarder for that matter...

[Dinner]

MtG: I've posted serval times in this thread that we should fine the businesses who hire illegals out of business. That would make them examples of what happens to people or businesses who break the law.

Once we keep the law breakers out and gain control of the borders then we can increase the legal visas or expand the guest worker programs to fill any labor needs. The main point is to punish people who break the law and to reward the people who wait in line and do things the legal way.

[SlowwHand]

I've ridden a bull.
I don't run any more since my motorcycle accident, but it's the bull that should be nervous.
Kick his ass.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
How would they feel if we snuck down there, and took their bull fighting jobs?

The bullrings would probably sell more tickets. Hell, I'd pay to see you dressed in one of those outfits runnin' like Stepin Fetchit from some big pissed-off bull.

Mexico has a lot of illegal immigrants too, how do you think people get from places like Colombia and El Salvador to the US? You think they fly in on United? They also come in from China, and all sorts of places.

[pchang]

Money Talks

Sure, our politicians bow down before lobbyists and their money, but what does that have to do with our views? We don't necessarily like the current system any better than you do. I know I voted against them.

As for Lay and Fastow, that has more to do with the Mckinsey Illuminati more than anything else. Don't get me started on them.

[pchang]

Re: Re: expanding legal immigrants

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


If you give them green cards, why would they still be willing to do the jobs nobody wants, when they'd have the legal right to compete for any job? How many green card holders do you find in the fields? Not very many.

Maybe because that is the kind of work they are familiar with and maybe because they don't have the skills to do anything else.

Edit. Also, you don't have to limimt yourself to green cards. You could have work visas to allow people to come in and work in certain job classifications, etc.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin
MtG: I've posted serval times in this thread that we should fine the businesses who hire illegals out of business. That would make them examples of what happens to people or businesses who break the law.

Once we keep the law breakers out and gain control of the borders then we can increase the legal visas or expand the guest worker programs to fill any labor needs. The main point is to punish people who break the law and to reward the people who wait in line and do things the legal way.

I think this is a bad idea. Too many Americans, including me, employ Mexicans without be too particular about their status. Going after the employers will only dry up jobs for the Mexicans making them totally dependent on welfare. Now that is a very bad idea.

[Dinner]

Re: Re: expanding legal immigrants

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
If you give them green cards, why would they still be willing to do the jobs nobody wants, when they'd have the legal right to compete for any job? How many green card holders do you find in the fields? Not very many.

There would still be a language barrier which would prevent most of them from getting other work. At least intially until they learned English. Besides I for one would gladely pay extra for a head of lettice if I know it was grown above board and didn't exploit anyone. If the growers didn't have illegal labor to exploit then wages would rise and we'd find all sorts of people who'd do the work. The point is wages are depressed do to surpluss illegal labor thus no one but illegals want's to do it. Remove the illegal labor and wages will rise.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Oerdin
MtG: I've posted serval times in this thread that we should fine the businesses who hire illegals out of business. That would make them examples of what happens to people or businesses who break the law.

Once we keep the law breakers out and gain control of the borders then we can increase the legal visas or expand the guest worker programs to fill any labor needs. The main point is to punish people who break the law and to reward the people who wait in line and do things the legal way.

Two problems with that scenario:

It's not politically popular to expand work permits for brown people, even for crap jobs nobody wants. Try suggesting that in an election, and see how far down you go in the polls.

It's also no politically popular to go after employers, because they can buy politicians.

The current system "works" in it's own sick way, for everyone. Employers get cheap labor with no legal rights - screw unions, workplace conditions enforcement, etc. And/or yuppies get their cheap maids.

Border Patrol and INS have huge budgets.

Smugglers make tons of money, from the pollos, and now the smarter ones contract with employers.

The relative cost of a few of them littering the landscape by hanging out on some street corners, and the occasional trashed camp site, fire, etc. is less than the cost of having legal workers with full rights under the law and the ability to compete in the job market.

The job market regulates itself with a similar elasticity to the legal job market, because it doesn't do a pollo any good to pay a smuggler 1500 to get up here, if there's no work. Especially if he gets caught and deported 2-3 times. So the "flood" adjusts itself to the particular job market that hires them.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


The bullrings would probably sell more tickets. Hell, I'd pay to see you dressed in one of those outfits runnin' like Stepin Fetchit from some big pissed-off bull.

Mexico has a lot of illegal immigrants too, how do you think people get from places like Colombia and El Salvador to the US? You think they fly in on United? They also come in from China, and all sorts of places.

All true.