Palestinian Govt. Officials Admit Arafat IS An Obstacle

[Dinner]

Arafat is a petty dictator who knows his sole reason for existence is the conflict. If the conflict is solved then Arafat will be forced out of the picture thus Arafat makes sure the conflict goes on and on with no end.

[Sirotnikov]

I agree that by 2004 Arafat will be out of the picture. Probably in the next 2 or 3 months. But by 2004 for sure.


And GePap - it's nice for Israel to take confidence building steps, but it just isn't as easy as it appears.

We released several hundred Palestnian prisoners. It is no where within the roadmap, but Abbas said it's probably the single most important confidence building step Israel could do.

So we did it. And we tried our best to release as many as we could, whom were not directly involved in acts of murder. And we made them sign a declaration they would never return to terrorism.


Remember the double terrorist attack on tuesday a week ago?

Both suicide bombers were relatives, both were released during Israel's confidence building steps.

How do you think the Israeli public or Sharon will go about prisoner releases the next time?

[Sirotnikov]

And GePap - the Palestinians infact openly admit that whiel Arafat is alive and present, there is no way in hell anyone could do to replace him. He simply kept his people in the dark about what ever steps Abu Mazen gained.

[Sirotnikov]

last bump for Agathon's sake

[chequita guevara]

Maybe instead of releasing terrorists you could withdraw from your illegal settlements instead. That might convince the Palestinians you're serious . . . and the rest of the world too.

I wish my government would stop giving your govnerment money.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
And GePap - the Palestinians infact openly admit that whiel Arafat is alive and present, there is no way in hell anyone could do to replace him. He simply kept his people in the dark about what ever steps Abu Mazen gained.

I have no question just how "isolated" the Pals are..I am sure enough of them have satelite dishes (which are like hotcakes in the Arab world) to know what trully is going on..whether they care to listen.. Oh, and the politicians and leaders do know what goes on, so they can continue politicking freely.

And Arafta is NOT universally liked..at soe point his approval rating went down to 28% or less: the thing is, when Israel starts to threaten him, of course the Pas will rally around him. The question is not getting rid of Arafat, but making him like Queen Elizabeth, a symbol and irrelevant.

As for the prisoner release.. I have said already elsewhere, the TRUE confidence building measure is to take down every single settlement begun since sept 2002 and a freeze on ALL new consturction, including for "natural growth". Any palestinina who could show Israle willing to work with them that far would have a much easier time in taking over. And doing that does nothing to endanger Israelis by Palestinains, only the career's, and possiblel lives of Israeli politicians at the hands of their constutients.

[Zevico]

GePap, if he becomes a symbol he might (I am not sure of this) retain his power because he was "martryred". For that matter, Arafat would never allow that to happen.

[Sirotnikov]

I have no question just how "isolated" the Pals are..I am sure enough of them have satelite dishes (which are like hotcakes in the Arab world) to know what trully is going on..whether they care to listen..

And I'm sure that their satellite dishes are all tuned to Arab satellite networks, which are very used to always supporting the current leaders of each respective dictatorhip - meaning that all of them would support Arafat over abu-Mazen.

Oh, and the politicians and leaders do know what goes on, so they can continue politicking freely.

But that is exactly the problem. No one, no matter what, can win against Arafat. You simply fail to understand the dynamics of a personified autocratic rule. There is no one that can defeat Arafat as long as he is alive.

And Arafta is NOT universally liked..at soe point his approval rating went down to 28% or less: the thing is, when Israel starts to threaten him, of course the Pas will rally around him. The question is not getting rid of Arafat, but making him like Queen Elizabeth, a symbol and irrelevant.

But as long as he is alive, you can't make him a symbol. He is not a queen Elizabeth. He is more like chairman Stalin. There was no way that man could have been turned a symbol, no matter how unpopuar he was.

And it is also true that Arafat is not liked. Infact most palestinians hate him and his corrupt government. But as the rest of the arab world goes, they are very loyal and forgiving of their current tyranical leader.

I'm sure that once Arafat is gone, in a matter of a week or two, there will be no more demonstrations, because the money to pay people to come, will run out.

As for the prisoner release.. I have said already elsewhere, the TRUE confidence building measure is to take down every single settlement begun since sept 2002 and a freeze on ALL new consturction, including for "natural growth".

Excuse me, I'm sure that you also support the Palestinians to take down every single building they built since september 2000, and freeze all new construction in disputed areas, including thier own natural growth.

The areas in question are disputed, and many of the existing settlements were previously destroyed and expelled in the genocidal campaign by Jordan in 1948.

Any palestinina who could show Israle willing to work with them that far would have a much easier time in taking over. And doing that does nothing to endanger Israelis by Palestinains, only the career's, and possiblel lives of Israeli politicians at the hands of their constutients.

Inexact.

The settlements have several goals. 1 of them is to re-instate the areas of jewish settlement that existed pre-1948, before the whole west bank was cleared of Jews by Jordanian troops.

The second, according to the settlers themselves, is to draw the fire of most terrorist attacks. And to an extent - it is working. At least a half of terrorist activity is directed at settlers, who to an extent, knowingly agree to draw fire on themselves. This saves effort on protecting Tel-Aviv and other cities.

However, this does not in any way make the attacks on settlers legitimate or justified. Just because they acknowledge the existance of palestinian terrorism against civilians, and are willing to risk themselves to draw part of the fire - does not mean that it is somehow justified to hurt them.

Just as if a raging lunatic would start shooting people on the streets, and I would offer myself to coduct a diversion maneuver, it would not make it somehow "ok" to target me.