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  • #16
    The ACLU is A-OK with me.

    But yea, it has a decidedly leftist taint to it. Which is unfortunate, but there is growing support for change within the organization. I was at their Inaugral Membership Conference this June, it was excellent. In this age of the Patriot Act and other such crap we need the ACLU more than ever.

    At one of the awards banquets (I got to see Muhammed Ali get an award) I had an interesting gun rights discussion with some ACLU Board Members. One told me that she felt the ACLU's position is totally inconsistant on the 2nd Amendment. She believes, rightly I might add, that since there is such an active and powerful gun lobby already the ACLU shouldn't devote any of its resources to work on this issue. However we both think it should at least acknowledge there is a thing called the 2nd Amendment, even if they don't work on it.

    While this is a promising sign, another board member at the table had a long drawn out discussion with me (and this other guy) over dinner. He was passionately anti-gun. I was not on my debating toes, cause I let him drag us through this whole long discussion on the nature of rights and their orgin and stuff. Which is irrelevant actually, he obviously supports 1st amendment "rights" so he can't attack the 2nd amendment by challenging the basis of rights.

    But I digress. There is certainly a very powerful old liberal guard in the ACLU that don't want change. I was greatly encouraged by the very strong, and very large youth contigent at the conference. Many of which were embracing the hiring of Congressman Barr and other overtures to conservatives by the organization.

    Not to say change is eminent. The top ACLU brass would make some interesting statements "These evil conservatives are out to imprision every one of us, and now that Republicans control all 3 branches of government they will be unstoppable in squashing our civil liberties. Only the totally, and completely non-partisan ACLU can stop these Bible thumping Republican zealots." Paraphrased of course.

    Even though I don't agree with everything the ACLU does, they are an admirable organization that deserves everyone's support.

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    Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

    When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
      I voted for:

      "They do some questionable things- but I still support them"

      Overall, they are ok, but some stuff they do is just moronic.
      We have to stop agreeing with each other.
      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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      • #18
        Defense of free speech is almost always awesome, but when they get into the quis custodiet ipsos custodes type logic, I hate them.
        "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

        Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

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        • #19
          But I do wonder if there are a lot of conservatives that have this automatic-knee-jerk reaction towards all organizations that have any inkling of a liberal ideology, as being "incompetent, corrupt, or useless?"
          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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          • #20
            I find the opposite is more true. Liberals haven't a knee-jerk reaction to anything conservative, as being evil and lying .
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Oerdin
              I wish they'd try to support the constitution more then just left wing political adgendas.


              What left wing agenda? Give an example. Those of us on the left often find ourselves opposed to the ACLU. For instance - the ACLU is opposed to campaign finance reform. The ACLU also defended that moron in FL who wanted to wear a veil in her driver's license photo - sticking up for the rights of right wing religious zealots.

              Sure, the ACLU is pro-choice but given that libertarians are pro-choice, pro-choice is not a left-wing issue.
              - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
              - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
              - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                I find the opposite is more true. Liberals haven't a knee-jerk reaction to anything conservative, as being evil and lying .
                Yeah, yeah. It's not the left calling all conservatives traitors ...
                - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
                - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
                - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

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                • #23
                  It's not the left calling all conservatives traitors


                  Actually, they are... but in a different way (if you don't think the left believes Ashcroft [and by extention every Republican] is a traitor to the American ideal, then you aren't paying attention ).

                  I'm reminded of the way the Democrats treated the Estrada confirmation. Not even a right-wing ideologe, but since he's Bush's boy, they had to deep six it. Just mere close association to Bush means he is 'evil'.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    It's not the left calling all conservatives traitors


                    Actually, they are... but in a different way (if you don't think the left believes Ashcroft [and by extention every Republican] is a traitor to the American ideal, then you aren't paying attention ).
                    But Ashcroft is a traitor ... (and even many prominent Republicans like Bob Barr and Grover Norquist have said as much).
                    - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
                    - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
                    - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Templar




                      What left wing agenda? Give an example. Those of us on the left often find ourselves opposed to the ACLU. For instance - the ACLU is opposed to campaign finance reform. The ACLU also defended that moron in FL who wanted to wear a veil in her driver's license photo - sticking up for the rights of right wing religious zealots.

                      Sure, the ACLU is pro-choice but given that libertarians are pro-choice, pro-choice is not a left-wing issue.
                      complete lack of understanding of right wing zealots here.

                      Only christians are right wing zealots. Do you really think muslims are conservatives

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                      • #26
                        If you define conservative as "christian," then obviously the answer is going to be no. Otherwise, you could argue that point.
                        1011 1100
                        Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                          I find the opposite is more true. Liberals haven't a knee-jerk reaction to anything conservative, as being evil and lying .
                          Well duh -- conservatives ARE evil incarnate, you know.


                          (joking)
                          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                          • #28
                            But Conservatives are evil incarnate, whenever I feel the need to be evil and destructive I always think about helping the conservative cause...
                            "Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"​​

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                              I'm reminded of the way the Democrats treated the Estrada confirmation. Not even a right-wing ideologe, but since he's Bush's boy, they had to deep six it. Just mere close association to Bush means he is 'evil'.
                              98% of his judges have been confirmed. So the Dem's aren't rubber-stamping all of Bush's nominees. Big whoop. 3 out of 150+. Compared with the 54 (or 59) judges Clinton wanted that the Reps wouldn't even bring to the floor.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                              • #30
                                The Dems have mostly let Bush's judges sail through and have only stopped with worst offenders.
                                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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