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AAA faces [spurious] lawsuit

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  • #16
    Originally posted by st_swithin
    I refer to the McDonald's/too-hot coffee case
    First, I have never, ever seen anybody place a hot drink of any kind between the legs, or heard of anyone doing so apart from this case (which generated many a comment from coffee drinkers).

    While there are legions of ridiculous awards one could cite, the McDonalds coffee case actually had merit. Most of the hype around the case is WRONG.

    Consider:

    * Internal documents showed that between 1982 and 1992, McDonalds received more than 700 claims of injuries resulting from coffee that was served too hot, some of these involving third-degree burns, some involving injured children. Previous claims had resulted in six-figure settlements (the highest was $500,000).

    * McDonalds served its coffee at a temperature of 180 - 190F (most restaurants serve it at a much safer 135-140F). Coffee at 180-190F will scald the mouth and throat if swallowed.

    * McDonald's own internal research showed that some customers drank their coffee immediately, while driving.

    * McDonalds had previously ignored a request from the Shriner's Burn Institute of Cincinnati to serve their coffee at a safer temperature.

    * The car was not in motion when the accident happened, and the victim (79-year-old Stella Liebeck) was not driving. The cup was not between her legs.

    * What really happened: Her son was behind the wheel, and had stopped the car to allow her to add creamer and sugar to the coffee. She was holding the cup between her knees. When she removed the lid off the coffee, she accidentally spilled the entire cup.

    * The coffee was so hot that she instantly suffered third-degree burns over 6% of her body (including her groin, genitalia, inner thighs and buttocks). Skin grafting resulted in scarring over 16% of her body.

    * Mrs. Liebeck approached McDonalds asking for $11,000. McDonalds refused, and instead offered her $800. Liebeck (who had never before filed a claim against anyone) then hired a lawyer and asked McDonalds for $20,000 to cover her medical bills.

    * A court-appointed mediator suggested a settlement of $225,000. McDonalds again refused, so the case went to trial.

    * In court, McDonalds representatives initially lied about the 700 previous burn claims.

    * The jury awarded Liebeck damages of $200,000 less $40,000 because they deemed her to be 20% at fault.

    * Because it found McDonalds guilty of "willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct", the jury also awarded punitive damages of $2.7 million, an amount based on two days of McDonalds coffee sales. This award was subsequently reduced to $480,000. (Imran corrrectly noted this oft-overlooked fact)

    * The final award is not known because the parties entered into a secret settlement.


    sources:

    http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm
    Last edited by mindseye; September 9, 2003, 06:02.
    Official Homepage of the HiRes Graphics Patch for Civ2

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    • #17
      Re: Just punch my button, will ya!

      Originally posted by Straybow

      First, I have never, ever seen anybody place a hot drink of any kind between the legs, or heard of anyone doing so apart from this case (which generated many a comment from coffee drinkers).
      Lots of coffee drinkers used to do so (at least once in a while) in the days before cupholders.

      I can think of many outrageous consumer product verdicts, two off the toppa me head: the silicone breast implant case (bad science), and the Pacific Gas & Electric case on which the film Erin Brockovich is based (really bad science, see the exposé from Wall Street Journal).
      I took a quick look at the Fumento piece and as a scientist, my first thoughts were, something stinks. I wonder who funded Mr Fumento? Just because there is no specific evidence in the literature does not mean that there are no indications, or that there is no likelyhood of something having an effect. Fumento's 'logic' is what kept the tobacco industry penalty-free for so many years. All heavy metals are toxic and carcinogenic, it's just a matter of how many ppm. PG&E were negligent, in my opinion criminally so.

      The next big cases will come against the vaccine makers who have included mercury in with their products. Is there anyone who doesnt know what general effects mercury has (despite there being little specific data) ?

      Product liability and pollution cases are argued by lawyers ignorant of science before judges ignorant of science to juries even more ignorant of both law and science. I am a firm believer in tort reform and codification.
      The last thing we need is for these decisions to be made by 'experts'.
      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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      • #18
        Mindseye, thanks. McDonalds really were *******s in that case. From the temperature of their coffee being so high, to getting complaints time and time and time again... punitive damages definetly were warrented.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #19
          Suing for the coffee being too hot still seems spurious to me. But suing the AAA for the murder of their daughter, it strikes me as lashing out...christ knows why...
          Speaking of Erith:

          "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dissident
            I do think AAA can and should be sued.

            That's a horrible thing to have happen. These people are paying for this service after all.
            Of course it's a horrible thing...but AAA isn't at fault.

            The victim wasn't paying for the service, that's part of the problem. Her stepfather was covered by AAA, not her. AAA often will assist family of members, but they are under no legal obligation to do so.

            Regardless, AAA sent a truck. They did more than they were obliged to do. Could the truck driver have done more? Maybe, but regardless...the woman got into a car with a stranger of her own volition. It was a stupid, reckless thing to do. Her death is one person's fault alone, and that is her murderer. Neither AAA nor the truck driver told her to get into a car with a stranger. She could have done any number of things, like take the car to a closer mechanic, or just wait for the truck driver. But she decided, as an adult, to do something unwise. It's awful, but I don't see how AAA should be held responsible for her bad choice.
            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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            • #21
              Originally posted by st_swithin
              I refer to the McDonald's/too-hot coffee case, which won national attention as well as around $150,000 (of course, the plaintiff received about $50K after the lawyers' and court fees).
              Which was a crompletely legitmate lawsuit given that the coffee was 190 degree and McDonalds had recieved over 700 complaints that their coffee was burning people! You cannot drink 190 degree anything. It was so hot that it caused 2nd degree burns on contact, and it fell into her lap and it took so much time to get her clothes off she received third degree burns on her genitals. McDonalds got off lightly.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Boris Godunov
                the woman got into a car with a stranger of her own volition. It was a stupid, reckless thing to do.
                I expect AAA will be found not liable. I feel bad the tow truck driver if he has to provide his own lawyer (which may or may not be the case). My dad spent $50K defending himself from an EEOC case that never came. Defending yourself is extremely expensive.
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                • #23
                  It doesn't look like the truck driver is named in the lawsuit, which is probably because they know he doesn't have deep pockets. Yet another indication they're just out for money.
                  Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                  • #24
                    Ooh, the AAA as in the automobile company. I thought you meant the Alien Adoption Agency when I first looked at the title... Someone should sue them too.

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                    • #25
                      I'd sue WWF (the World Wildlife Foundation) for ruining white-trash entertainment for many, many people.

                      Or else I'd sue the WWE for making the actors into a bunch of pvssies. Or something.

                      Has anyone ever sued Time magazine? I'm sure they're due for a good lawsuit or twenty.
                      -30-

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                      • #26
                        Can you name another outrageous verdict of the top of your head? Thought not ...
                        IIRC, a woman was awarded $750,000 for tripping over something in a furniture store. Guess what it was? Her own son that she'd left running around.
                        meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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                        • #27
                          And a robber got himself locked in his victim's garage for 7 days while the victim was out on vacation. He managed to live drinking a case of Pepsi that had been left in the garage, and sued the man for emotional damages. He got away with far more than he would've robbing the place.
                          meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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                          • #28
                            Are those cases substantiated, or did you get them from an internet list or e-mail? I see a lot of crap going around the internet that isn't true.
                            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                            • #29
                              Yeah, I got them from an internet list.

                              But it's not a debate that a lot of lawsuits are pure bull****...don't you agree?
                              meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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                              • #30
                                Certainly, but the issue is also verdicts. Basically, since people can sue for almost any reason, of course there will be a lot of bull**** lawsuits.
                                Tutto nel mondo è burla

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