Minimum Wage

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course you need SOME minimum wage and welfare. If not for compassion, then at the very least so you don't get revolution after revolution .

[MrFun]

God darn it -- MTG and Beserker, my last post is at the bottom of the previous page.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Previous page? I'm on 50 posts per page .

[MrFun]

So??

Does that make you special, or a better masturbator, or something?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well I am a better masterbator even without the posts per page differences .

The problem is that when you say 'previous page', people who have different posts per page limits might not follow and jump to a different post.

[MrFun]

Well fine -- I wil clarify -- my last serious post in response to MTG and Beserker.

HAPPY????

[Imran Siddiqui]

Very

[Berzerker]

MrFun -

Bastardizing other people's argument, are we?

Nope, translating gibberish into English. Feel free to point out just how I "bastardized" what he said. Your failure to do so is illuminating wrt your accusation...

Was that it? You made a point of informing me your last post was at the bottom of this page and all I get is a rock? Occasionally I like reminding people that "taxes" used to enrich some people at the expense of others is called stealing, I could have added that the stealing is "legal" but that doesn't create a moral mandate any more than defending slavery 150 years ago by pointing out that it was legal would convince the morally adept of the efficacy of your crusade.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Berzerker
MrFun -

Nope, translating gibberish into English. Feel free to point out just how I "bastardized" what he said. Your failure to do so is illuminating wrt your accusation...

Was that it? You made a point of informing me your last post was at the bottom of this page and all I get is a rock? Occasionally I like reminding people that "taxes" used to enrich some people at the expense of others is called stealing, I could have added that the stealing is "legal" but that doesn't create a moral mandate any more than defending slavery 150 years ago by pointing out that it was legal would convince the morally adept of the efficacy of your crusade.

Is David Floydd having too much influence on you these days, with his libertarian blabbering?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Re: Re: Money, Compassion, and Self Interest

Originally posted by MrFun
MTG -- yes, we need to do a lot less blaming -- from BOTH SIDES before we can make serious progress towards more equitable quality of life.

All blaming someone does is jack off the ego of whoever is doing the blaming. I'm more interested in solving problems and moving forward. It also creates an atmosphere wherein people expect somebody else to bail them out as compensation. So it's totally wasted energy.

And I'm glad you had the exceptional experience of climbing from the very bottom to the top. You worked hard, and you earned it -- but do people living below poverty -- excluding exceptional "success" stories, even have an opportunity to climb up??

Sure they do. Poverty line people are generally unskilled laborers (I'm excluding people with real disabilities, etc., because I think they should be helped to a degree that keeps them above the poverty line), and the majority of jobs out there required some degree of skill, whether it's white collar or blue collar.

The "I don't got no opportunity and it's all _______________'s (fill in the blank with the villain of your choice) fault" is a cop out line for losers. There are trade schools, free or low cost adult ed classes, OJT, training in the military, union apprenticeship programs, all sorts of options for people to improve their economic situation.

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Money, Compassion, and Self Interest

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


All blaming someone does is jack off the ego of whoever is doing the blaming. I'm more interested in solving problems and moving forward. It also creates an atmosphere wherein people expect somebody else to bail them out as compensation. So it's totally wasted energy.



Sure they do. Poverty line people are generally unskilled laborers (I'm excluding people with real disabilities, etc., because I think they should be helped to a degree that keeps them above the poverty line), and the majority of jobs out there required some degree of skill, whether it's white collar or blue collar.

The "I don't got no opportunity and it's all _______________'s (fill in the blank with the villain of your choice) fault" is a cop out line for losers. There are trade schools, free or low cost adult ed classes, OJT, training in the military, union apprenticeship programs, all sorts of options for people to improve their economic situation.

So the reason that these impoverished minimum wage workers are not taking up these opportunities to utilize the resources you mentioned is simply because of laziness?

I think that is over-simplification, don't you?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Caligastia


It's not forced altruism - that's the difference.

forced altruism? u mean "be nice or I shoot u in the head?" now thats some bizarre stuff

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by yavoon


forced altruism? u mean "be nice or I shoot u in the head?" now thats some bizarre stuff

That's communism.

[DAVOUT]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Money, Compassion, and Self Interest

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

Poverty line people are generally unskilled laborers (I'm excluding people with real disabilities, etc., because I think they should be helped to a degree that keeps them above the poverty line), and the majority of jobs out there required some degree of skill, whether it's white collar or blue collar.

The "I don't got no opportunity and it's all _______________'s (fill in the blank with the villain of your choice) fault" is a cop out line for losers. There are trade schools, free or low cost adult ed classes, OJT, training in the military, union apprenticeship programs, all sorts of options for people to improve their economic situation.

According to the IQ curve, they are as many people below 75 than above 125. I suspect that those people can hardly, if at all, adapt to our modern complex society, and are unable to acquire a qualification. Do you count them in the desabled?

[Solly]

A lot of idiotic arguments in this thread so far. Can't be arsed dealing with them all.

Mr Fun

I'm talking about part of mainstream American society of independent adults who are legal citizens, who work their asses off, yet still live below the poverty level in one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

I haven't a clue what the average minimum wage is in the US, but let's assume it's similar to that in the UK; so, around $6.50 p/h. "Working their asses off" says to me 50+ hours a week, in which case they'd be earning upwards of $320 a week. $16k a year. If that is below the "poverty line" I think it says more about the excellent standard of living Americans enjoy than about the individual situation.

GePap,

Any system that has rich needs poor. not everyone has the time to take of to study, and as I have said before, if everyone studies and gets an associates or bachelors, then having it becoms the requirement and the value of it goes down (supply and demand, supply and demand). The only reason we can say "go to college so you can get a better job" is that there are enough people out there qho don;t go to college and you can skip right over them. If they all had a degree, then it becomes "go get a doctorate and a good job boy!"

Link me studies that show education is a zero-sum game please. It's not.

PChang,

It also seems that over time, the difference in wealth between those who have and those who do not tends to grow

Last week's Economist showed global inequality is falling. I trust you have a copy.

In the UK it's mostly middle-class teenagers and wives of wealthy men who have benefitted most from the minimum wage laws. I therefore hardly see a (higher) minimum wage as helping the most needy in society.