The Apolyton Science Fiction Discussion Group: The Man in the High Castle.

[JohnT]

Because August was frenetically busy for me, I decided to take a month off from the discussion group and start it up again in September. Remember: next months book is The Dune Chronicles (the entire series, not just the first book).

Book: The Man in the High Castle
Author: Philip K. ****
Published: 1962

There are a few books that one reads that, even though you are quite capable of understanding the words, you can't make the sense of them, much less figure why this book is held in such high esteem by others. To me, the top book in this category is Ted Sturgeons More Than Human, which I thought was a complete waste - no ideas, all style, pretty full of boredom.

High Castle brought back a little of that feeling for me... though I've read the book twice since purchasing it, I'm still wondering: What's the point? Did anything actually happen in this book? Perhaps I'm too linear in my expectations, but still... just what was this book about? "Slice of life" stories are fine... as long as you can find an interesting slice of the life you're writing about.

I found his portrayal of the Japanese as the most rational and least emotive (and least racist!) of peoples to be almost laughable - while the Japanese are fine people, how PKD could not have been aware of their ability to go from wild Xenophobics to cultural assimilators and back is amazing. Had he not heard of the Nanking Massacre? Did he never look up the definition of the traditional Japanese word for foreigners, gaijin, which translates into, iirc, "foreign devils", i.e., if you're not Japanese you are, by default, a devil and not to be trusted. This is one of those things which sticks out so badly that my enjoyment of the rest of the book suffers by comparison.

I sent a PM to Drake seeing if he could give some insight into the Japanese mindset - hopefully, he'll participate (I have no idea if he has read the book).

[JohnT]

This page has some good examples of the meaning of the word, both from Japanese peoples and foreigners. Here's a sample:

I think the one time I was really upset was in Hawaii. Two Japanese were sitting next to me in a Sushi Shop and when I started to eat they said "Look, that Gaijin eats Sushi". Of course it was in Japanese and thought that this large Caucasion would never learn their language thus they felt safe saying that.

I told them in no uncertain terms that I was born and raised in the USA thus I am an American and they were the Gaijins in the restaurant. Without any fanfare at all, they paid their bill and left without eating what they had ordered.

[Eli]

There are a few books that one reads that, even though you are quite capable of reading the words, you can't make the sense of them, much less understand why this book is held in such high esteem by others. To me, the top book in this category is Ted Sturgeons More Than Human, which I thought was a complete waste - no ideas, all style, pretty full of boredom.

High Castle brought back a little of that feeling for me... though I've read the book twice since purchasing it, I'm still wondering: What's the point? Did anything actually happen in this book? Perhaps I'm too linear in my expectations, but still... just what was this book about? "Slice of life" stories are fine... as long as you can find an interesting slice of the life you're writing about.

100% Agreed. I was reading the book and mainly looking for those rare lines of actual alternate history instead of the usual descriptions of people's lives.

[JohnT]

Hell, I was just looking for a plot.

[St Leo]

I read KSR's Years of Rice and Salt instead. Sue me.

[Eli]

Originally posted by St Leo
I read KSR's Years of Rice and Salt instead. Sue me.

I read both of them.

[St Leo]

Well, my casual search didn't turn up a copy of **** and I had already bought the KSR.

[Ramo]

Yeah, I didn't like it that much either. The style was too Turtledovey (over-rated, medicore writing) for my tastes. I stopped reading after the first 100 pages.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Eli
100% Agreed. I was reading the book and mainly looking for those rare lines of actual alternate history instead of the usual descriptions of people's lives.

Likewise.

Do you want to know more? /st

PKD actually used that prediction technique his characters are using (I forgot what it was called) to decide what direction the plot takes

No wonder the book is such a mess.

Some of his characterisations are ok, but it is not enough to float this book. Alternate history is not of great quality either, instead, as already pointed out, there are some pretty wide holes in it.

At least he didn't make this book a three-tome epic or something, I read it pretty fast.

[VetLegion]

By the way, while we are in this genre; Turtledove's Ruled Britannia got some good critics. Supposedly his writing is much better than in his sequel ridden work.

[JohnT]

The prediction technique was the I Ching.

[VetLegion]

I Ching my thing at that. How convincing is it for Americans to eagerly accept something like that? Whatever.

[JohnT]

Bump. Did anyone like this book? How about Ajbera, who nominated it? Speak up, man!

[JohnT]

Another bump.

Drake and I have been talking about the meaning of "ijin" and "gaijin" and he says (essentially) that the two words are not similar, they just look that way when translated to English. Otoh, I'm not the only one with this misperception as I've read the comparison elsewhere (which is how I remembered it for the OP).

[Drake Tungsten]

Don't feel bad. I was trying to draw connections between the two words also, until my Japanese source wrote "ijin" down in kanji. It's really hard to comprehend the nuances of Japanese if you can't read the Chinese characters.