9/11

[Guardian]

First of all, I'd like to say that I mean no disrespect to anyone in saying this and I still extend my deepest, heartfelt sympathy to those who have lost family and loved ones.

That said, I have to admit that to me, September 11 is getting old. It was a big thing at the time and it affected us all in various ways, but now I find that I don't have much to say about it anymore and I actually find myself thinking that it really doesn't matter all that much.

Looking back at it now, I find that it has affected me no more than the countless other tragedies in places like Bosnia, Congo, Rwanda, Burundi, Liberia, Algeria, Jerusalem, Gaza, Chile, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Iraq, Afghanistan, Peru, Colombia...

...and countless other places where we can't even say the names...

I don't mind a memorial thread, and I respect that this memorial thread was dedicated to September 11. I don't have a problem with that. I'm just saying that to me who had no direct part in any of these tragedies, they are all equally tragic. There is no single incident that clearly stands out to me as being bigger or more significant than the rest.

A death is a death no matter where or how it happens. I mourn them all.

[chequita guevara]

PBS had a great show about the rise and fall of the WTC last night. Normally I hate shows like that, because they're all maudlin and gape-neck, but this was different.

Somethings I forgot about that horrible day. A big part of the horror was that everything didn't happen all at once, but built up.

First one plane crashes. Oh my god, what a horrible accident! And gets the world's attention. And we all watch, as a second plane comes from nowhere and slams into the second building!

People are jumping to escape the fire.

The Pentagon JUST GOT HIT!!!!!! What the hell is going on?!? It's not just a horrific terrorist attack in NYC. It's an attack against the whole country.

What, there's a plane still out there?

Then one tower falls. Oh my god, all those people. Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.

Then the other tower falls.

Later that day, the third building falls.

It was one thing after another, after another, after another. We didn't have time to process what we were seeing when we were hit again and again.

How many people do you think were killed? "More than we can bear." Gulliani.

And yet depite the fact that some people in this world hate so much that they could do this, we saw others that loved so much that they died trying to save others. The passangers of flight 93. The NYC fireman. Whole firehouses were lost. The NYC PD. Port Authority workers. People who stayed behind to help coworkers.

And that night, contruction workers just started showing up, saying, we can cut steel, you're gonna need us.

NYC came out of this stronger and better. Look at the recent blackouts. Crime actually went down. No rioting, no looting. New Yorkers held blackout parties and took it in stride and helped each other.

[MrFun]

that's cool, Chegitz

[Starchild]

I want to say that it changed me. That my heart has a spot which will always remember that day until the stars go cold. That I stood up and joined in brotherhood with mankind and achieved a sense of union and the transcendence of the limited self.

Except I can't. Sure, I felt the schock, horror, confusion, and disbelief. I watched as planes from the USA where granted safe haven in Canada because America had suddenly, shuddering shut down. I waited for the sesmic shift beneath my feet as the world crumbled.

Yet it didn't. I went to school the next day. I watched TV. I moved countries, made friends, took exams, and aged. The world crawled onward and I watched injustice, cruelty, and death continue it's cold, calculated stalk across the world. I saw shadows stretch and clouds pass over the sun. I saw madness and war, lies and smiles. Two years have moved on and instead of being the changing point, 9-11-2001 is another tile in history's mosaic.

So I eat, drink, laugh, love, cry and suffer. I dance and sing, reveling in the smallest experience. You can wake up in the morning and be cold meat by the end of the day. I live because in the end, we are all ash and dust.

Maybe it did change me.

[orange]

i became more vocal politically in my everyday life

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Starchild
I want to say that it changed me. That my heart has a spot which will always remember that day until the stars go cold. That I stood up and joined in brotherhood with mankind and achieved a sense of union and the transcendence of the limited self.

Except I can't. Sure, I felt the schock, horror, confusion, and disbelief. I watched as planes from the USA where granted safe haven in Canada because America had suddenly, shuddering shut down. I waited for the sesmic shift beneath my feet as the world crumbled.

Yet it didn't. I went to school the next day. I watched TV. I moved countries, made friends, took exams, and aged. The world crawled onward and I watched injustice, cruelty, and death continue it's cold, calculated stalk across the world. I saw shadows stretch and clouds pass over the sun. I saw madness and war, lies and smiles. Two years have moved on and instead of being the changing point, 9-11-2001 is another tile in history's mosaic.

So I eat, drink, laugh, love, cry and suffer. I dance and sing, reveling in the smallest experience. You can wake up in the morning and be cold meat by the end of the day. I live because in the end, we are all ash and dust.

Maybe it did change me.

interesting perspective

[Solly]

But it says nothing.

[Gatekeeper]

Sept. 11, 2001, changed me — not right away, but gradually. I now know that *all* victims of terrorism had it coming to 'em because of the policies enacted by their evil governments and/or evil corporations. Yep. They deserved to die, to have their limbs blown off, and to be brain-damaged.

I didn't think that way prior to Sept. 11, 2001, or even in the months following it. But, hey, I've been exposed to world opinion about this now, so I'm proud to say I've become really jaded and hardened.

Gatekeeper

P.S. And that post above was a crock of ****. It's how I feel like feeling sometimes, though, especially when certain others imply the United States deserved it. In that case, I shall hesitate to shed a tear when their landmarks are brought down and lives lost.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

check this out. i would have started another thread... but i know how ming feels about that.

so... i think this is pretty screwed up.

"NEW YORK (AP) -- Lawsuits blaming airlines, the Port Authority and the Boeing Co. for injuries and deaths in the September 11 terrorist attacks can proceed, a federal judge ruled Tuesday.

The defendants had argued that the suits should be dismissed because they had no duty to anticipate and guard against deliberate and suicidal aircraft crashes and because any alleged negligence on their part was not the cause of the deaths and injuries.

In his 49-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein said the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the World Trade Center property, "has not shown that it will prove its defense of governmental immunity as to negligence allegations made by WTC occupants."

The judge also said the evidence he had seen does not support Boeing's argument that the invasion and takeover of the cockpit by the terrorists frees it from liability.

The plaintiffs said Boeing should have designed its cockpit door to prevent hijackers from invading the cockpit.

The plaintiffs had also argued that American and United Airlines and the Port Authority were legally responsible to protect people on the ground when the hijacked aircraft smashed into the twin towers, causing them to collapse.

"

I really like that last part.

[Richelieu]

Jesus...

[DinoDoc]

The judge also said the evidence he had seen does not support Boeing's argument that the invasion and takeover of the cockpit by the terrorists frees it from liability.

The plaintiffs said Boeing should have designed its cockpit door to prevent hijackers from invading the cockpit.

Why not just sue the families of the pilots for opening the door to the cockpit then if we are going to be this petty?

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Originally posted by Lorizael

It certainly changed me. It made me look up.

No joke, it does. Whenever I am walking about and hear a jet engine, I reflexively look up for the source. I tend to watch the planes for a bit to check that everything appears "normal." Heading to La Guardia? Yup, things look okay...

I thought I'd do that less as time went on, but I caught myself doing just this past week...

I was serious too, but in a more metaphorical way. September 11 was one of the major events in my life that made me care just a little bit more about the universe around me.

I hated everything before 9/11, simply because I was depressed and didn't know any better. After such an earth shattering event, however, I actually put thought into the way of things.

[MrFun]

here ya go -- the first 9/11 memorial thread for this year

[Solver]

Sept. 10 here now, and I am adding my voice to what has been said before. I'd loved it if more people changed their avatars and flags to something like mine for the day...

[JohnT]

(copied from another thread that was closed)

I was driving to work, listening to the Tony Bruno Extravaganza and he and Andrew were talking about the media reaction towards Michael Jordan thinking of returning to basketball (again). In a joking voice Tony said "Believe it or not CNN has actually broken away from its 24-hour, wall-to-wall coverage of Michael Jordan to bring you pictures of a building on fire."

Andrew: "I think that's the World Trade Center."

"Get out of here.... wait, it is!"
"Man, that's a huge hole in it! Did a plane crash into it?"

That's when I got to work and found that a number of people had broken out some old TV sets that we kept in the back room and were fiddling with aerials, trying to get some decent reception. I called my wife ASAP and said "Turn on CNN!"