"The Collapse of the Middle Class"

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Odin
Good thread, Sava!

to Japher for his lack of compassion. HISTORY IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE! WE WILL BURY YOU!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!

Compassion is now required by law?

What about politeness? Or respecting other people? Is that required by law too?

Just because something may be a nice thing to do, doesn't mean you should make it LEGALLY REQUIRED! That's authoritarianism at it's stupidest, and no different than religious fundamentalism.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Revolution? I thought we already buried most of you, apart from NK and a couple lunatics in Canada.

It is called the 60's and 70's plus a bit of compassion, philosophy and logic mixed in. NK is stalinist, not communist you dipstick.

Skywalker: Did I say compassion was required by law? I ment that people who are not corrupted by greed would ostracize those who worship wealth in a ideal society.

[Kuciwalker]

So your "ideal society" is one in which everyone would get along and be nice and no one would live in poverty and we would all sing "Kumbaya"?

And you think this will happen?

Moreso, I don't CARE if this happens or not, a legal system that ENFORCES this violates our freedoms.

[:) Smiley]

Well freedom ain't free, and the cost of economic freedom is getting too high.

[Odin]

Originally posted by skywalker
So your "ideal society" is one in which everyone would get along and be nice and no one would live in poverty and we would all sing "Kumbaya"?

And you think this will happen?

Moreso, I don't CARE if this happens or not, a legal system that ENFORCES this violates our freedoms.

What do you think Utopia is, dummy? Can't a person push for a better world?

Your rights stop when you deprive others of thier rights, and we commies think EVERYONE on earth should be paid a living wage as a fundamental right, not this $5.15 crap here in the US and the the just plain evil of not paying people diddly squat in the 3rd world.

[Kuciwalker]

Can't a person push for a better world?

Yes, but you can't legislate that people "be nice".

Your rights stop when you deprive others of thier rights, and we commies think EVERYONE on earth should be paid a living wage as a fundamental right, not this $5.15 crap here in the US and the the just plain evil of not paying people diddly squat in the 3rd world.

You have a "right" to be paid a certain amount of money? WHY?! Breach of contract is illigal, of course (at least you can sue for it). Obviously, you need to keep people from being decieved about a contract. However, if you think your labor is worth more than they offer, don't work for them! Organize a strike! But don't go crying to the government! You do not have a right to get another person's money. If you want money, work for it!

[Kuciwalker]

Let me say it again -

Originally posted by skywalker Why am I obligated to give money I earned to someone else because they need it more? I recieve money in return for a commodity - my labor. If my labor is more valuable, then I will recieve more money. The value of my labor varies based on the same rules as any other commodity - supply and demand. Now, as I am recieving money for my labor, why should I then have to provide this money to someone with greater need for it than I? This essentially means that I am a slave to the needs of others. My labor, the ONLY commodity that is innate to me, has now been stolen by others. "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need." This is nothing more than being a slave to the needs and wants of others. Why does someone "deserve" something simply because they need it? I might as well not work, for then my need would be greater, and I would recieve more.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Your rights stop when you deprive others of thier rights, and we commies think EVERYONE on earth should be paid a living wage as a fundamental right

What about the 'right to contract' with someone for whatever they will work for? Isn't that a right as well? What other rights will you come up with that deprive others of their rights?

Oh, and btw, history has already passed you by. The 60s are dead, hippie .

[Soul Survivor]

Originally posted by Smiley
Well freedom ain't free, and the cost of economic freedom is getting too high.

Thank you for proving all cliches are meaningless

we commies think EVERYONE on earth should be paid a living wage as a fundamental right, not this $5.15 crap here in the US and the the just plain evil of not paying people diddly squat in the 3rd world.

Would you rather have the 3rd world not work? If not for American companies, many of these people would not have jobs. Their own countries cannot employ them, so instead American companies do. The standard of living there is far lower than in US and Europe, they'd never get the opportunity to buy a grande cafe latte for $4.

[Theben]

Originally posted by rah
There are beggers in Chicago that beg 40 hours a week then head home to their home in the suburbs. Some clear 50K in cash a year. Yet, they're getting food stamps and such. I know these are exceptions but it does make you question some of these things.

I remember that article, and it was 1 guy who made about $38,000/year. He was the highest "paid" of all the beggars, and he had an amazing ability to sell himself. The #2 guy had a horribly disfigured face, and raked in about $25,000/year. I doubt he was living large.

The article is hardly anti-Bush unless one wants to read it that way. It actually makes some very good points, but nothing new.

SS,

Can you think of something besides, "America: love it or leave it"? (which translates as "America: don't bother the status quo or conservatives won't like you")

[Dis]

going hungry?

come on!

That alone proves this article is crap.

THERE IS NO STARVATION PROBLEM IN AMERICA. The only starvation studies have found are anorexics. There is a malnutrition problem as poor people feed their kid Mcdonald's and the kids get too fat eating that crap.

[JohnT]

I also like this "alarming" statistic:

According to statistics from the International Labor Organization the average American last year worked 1,978 hours, up from 1,942 hours in 1990 - an increase of almost a week of work.

OMG!!!!! NO!!!!! REALLY?????

Let's do some maths here:

40 (hours per week) X 50 (weeks (assuming 2 weeks off for vacation)) = 2,000 hours!!!!

NOOO!!! People in America are working full work weeks!! What the hell is wrong with us????

[JohnT]

"With Wal-Mart replacing General Motors as our largest employer"

Another fallacy. Nobody employs more people than the Federal Government by a long shot.

[Kuciwalker]

Which is pretty sad... but that's not the point.

[JohnT]

Well, if you are complaining about the loss of income and point to Wal-Mart as the culprit because they are the "nations largest employer", and Wal-Mart is, in fact, NOT the nations largest employer, then you've got credibility issues.

Regardless, the article is the same tired spiel I've been reading since the 70s.