This sucks...

[David Floyd]

Here's a novel idea. Don't include any space for race on university applications. Have the application review process set up so that the names aren't even visible to those reviewing the application, that way only those with the best qualifications are accepted

Of course, this is "unfair"

[Kaak]

if minority parents want their kids to be successful, they need to start teaching them before they start school. I have friends who are intern teachers at primarily black schools, and one said she has 1st graders who don't know what the letter 'N' is. I think I knew my alphabet before i was 4, and was doing addition before i started kindergarden. The problem isn't with the schools, and it isn't with the universities. It's that often minority parents don't take any responsibility for the education of their kids, they just teach them how to blame someone else.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon
AA = reverse racism.

I hate this effing phrase. There's no such thing as "reverse" racism. It's simply racism, or it isn't racism. "Reverse racism" implies that racism is the nominative domain of white people, which is a racist sentiment.

[MrFun]

But Boris, those poor, straight heterosexual white males have had it so rough, historically -- they've been persecuted for centuries.

I'm not sure what group of people have persecuted, repressed, or overly exploited white, straight men, but I'm sure I can make something up.

[Boris Godunov]

How is that post remotely related to what I said?

[Kaak]

Originally posted by MrFun
But Boris, those poor, straight heterosexual white males have had it so rough, historically -- they've been persecuted for centuries.

I'm not sure what group of people have persecuted, repressed, or overly exploited white, straight men, but I'm sure I can make something up.

Do you know anything about european history? i'll give you a brief rundown. there was this little period of time known as the Middle ages that lasted about a millennium, where the mighty few persecuted, repressed and overly exploited the white straight, underprivaledged males.

Oppression doesn't have anything to do with the color of one's skin, it has to do with maintaining power. Master mentality vs slave mentality. sorry black people had it so bad for a couple hundred years. The white european majority had it a lot worse for a lot longer.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
How is that post remotely related to what I said?

"reverse racism" as in, white men sure have it tough now because of AA

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kaak


Do you know anything about european history? i'll give you a brief rundown. there was this little period of time known as the Middle ages that lasted about a millennium, where the mighty few persecuted, repressed and overly exploited the white straight, underprivaledged males.

Oppression doesn't have anything to do with the color of one's skin, it has to do with maintaining power. Master mentality vs slave mentality. sorry black people had it so bad for a couple hundred years. The white european majority had it a lot worse for a lot longer.

And guess which race has the most number of people that dominate the world through demographic concentration of wealth today in spite of what you described above?

[Kaak]

so, what you are saying is, that those that were the most oppressed came to rule the world financially without any affirmative action programs?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kaak
so, what you are saying is, that those that were the most oppressed came to rule the world financially without any affirmative action programs?

The history of Anglo-Saxons is different from that of other races.

Why compare the history of Anglo-Saxons and various African ethnic groups when their historical trajectories were dramatically different?

Yes, whites came to dominate without AA, but because their historical experiences were significantly different from that of various African ethnic groups, this doesn't mean much.

[Kaak]

funboi, you are taking a tragically limited perspective to this whole thing. What about the nations in africa that are run by blacks (and other races)? I would agree that they results are because of different histories, but that isn't the case for the average black baby born today.

I think those in college, and those with opportunities shoud be there and have those privaledges because they worked for them, not because they were handed such graces for the color of their skin. I don't think race, creed, or nationality should be a factor at all. I think parents need to take responsibility for instilling the RIGHT values in their children, and the children need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming others and asking for hand-outs.

The simple fact of the matter is 99% if black people are better off iin the states than they would have been in africa, even if they are janitors.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kaak
funboi, you are taking a tragically limited perspective to this whole thing. What about the nations in africa that are run by blacks (and other races)? I would agree that they results are because of different histories, but that isn't the case for the average black baby born today.

I think those in college, and those with opportunities shoud be there and have those privaledges because they worked for them, not because they were handed such graces for the color of their skin. I don't think race, creed, or nationality should be a factor at all. I think parents need to take responsibility for instilling the RIGHT values in their children, and the children need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming others and asking for hand-outs.

The simple fact of the matter is 99% if black people are better off iin the states than they would have been in africa, even if they are janitors.

Yes -- I am well aware of intra-racial exploitation of lower classes in different parts of the world, including Africa.
Some of this abusive power system in Africa emerged from the Cold War, when United States and other Western nations sought to plant friendly dictatorships.

The other part of the problem comes from African leaders who refuse to break the cycle they got their peoples into, because those African leaders are getting fat and rich at the expense of the majority of their people.

[Kaak]

yes. i think we may be arguing the same point in different ways. All i'm trying to say is that, from a philosophical perspective, affirmative action only propogates the Slave mentality, and handouts aren't good for bettering oneself. Everyone should be held to the same bar, so they know what they have to achieve to get what they want...

[MrFun]

I just don't think it's as simple as you say it is.

I'm sure you heard this explanation before, but look at this way . . .

When blacks were finally given fully equal economic rights with whites in this country, let's put them on a race track.

Let's say they're all running at the exact same pace (running at same pace represents equal rights), but whites were given a head start. It seems to me, that the black runners will never catch up with whites in terms of fianancial/economic resources.

But with AA, blacks have a real chance in catching up with whites.

[Japher]

I'll "run" with your analogy there MrFun:

So, since the blacks are so far behind we will pick them up in NASCAR and speed them down to were the white runners are and drop them off? Hmmm, seems to me that the white runners would be more conditioned by this point at running. THrow in a black runner that hasn't trained the way the white runners has and who probably hasn't stretched, chances are they would get cramps or fall behind really quick as the more experienced runners leave 'em in the dust.

(Funny that analogy makes the black guys bad runners)

If they want to play the game they NEED to play by the same rules, or else when the CHEATS are lifted they will not be ready for what will hit them...