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  • #91
    Originally posted by Odin

    Rich people waste a lot of thier extra money on useless goods like $100,000 luxury cars and whatever instead of using it for the good of society.
    This $100,000 first appears as revenues of automakers who will be able to invest in new factories and hire more people. Second, it gets distributed as dividends to investors's who will then have more money to invest in more entrepreneurial activities, thus creating more goods and jobs. Finally, this money becomes as wages for people who assembled it. They can in turn spend this money on buying food and other necessities, making restaurant and grocery store workers happy.

    I'm often amazed about how little you commies understand economy.

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    • #92
      DanS: I think you underestimate the worth of the information age...

      Merciless
      Monkey!!!

      Comment

      • #93
        Originally posted by DanS
        We also haven't had as many big technological advances instituted during our time, even though I'm sure we're spending much more on R&D. I am amazed at what America did in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
        We haven't seen the end of the productivity gains from the Information Age, but the thing about productivity gains is that they have to result in less working hours for workers otherwise the result is unemployment in the short run.
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Lord Merciless
          I'm often amazed about how little you commies understand economy.
          Because we understand that it's not that simple.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment

          • #95
            We haven't seen the end of the productivity gains from the Information Age, but the thing about productivity gains is that they have to result in less working hours for workers otherwise the result is unemployment in the short run.
            That's not true.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #96
              Originally posted by DanS


              That's not true.
              You're no fun.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

              Comment

              • #97
                The fact is that productivity is normally strongest when economic growth is strongest. Because of this, jobs aren't lost in the aggregate, but rather they are gained. It is easy to know this is so conceptually, since capacity utilization is higher during times of high economic growth.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                Comment

                • #98
                  Are you totally sure about that DanS, because the figures seem to bear out Kidicious's assumption.

                  1990-92
                  Change in GDP 1990-92: 2.6%
                  Change in total hours worked: -0.8%

                  2000-02
                  Change in GDP 2000-02: 2.7%
                  Change in total hours worked: -1.3%

                  it looks to me like the vast majority of the productivity improvement in this recession compared to the last one is due to lower inputs, not higher output.
                  19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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                  • #99
                    What you aren't taking into account is that historically the periods of growth are longer than the periods of recession, that productivity growth has been higher during periods of growth, and that the last two recessions have been deviations from the norm.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      So you're saying that 'this time it's different' - surely that's hust what Kidicious was also saying.

                      During the boom employment growth was much slower than before as well.

                      Taking the last two cycle's in comparison:

                      1979-1990:
                      Average GDP growth: 2.9%
                      'Trend' underlying GDP growth: 3.1%*
                      Total Hours worked: 1.8%
                      Hourly Productivity: 1.1%

                      1990-2000:
                      Average GDP growth: 3.2%
                      'Trend' underlying GDP growth: 3.0%*
                      Total Hours worked: 1.5%
                      Hourly Productivity: 1.7%

                      * this is derived from using the OECD estimates of the output gap


                      So you can see that despite the faster overall growth in GDP in the 1990's, total hours worked showed a significant slowdown.
                      19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

                      Comment

                      • #101
                        So you can see that despite the faster overall growth in GDP in the 1990's, total hours worked showed a significant slowdown.
                        No, the growth in total hours worked showed a significant slowdown. The total hours worked increased. Only a very few quarters among those 30 years showed both high productivity and job losses, as Kid is proposing as the norm.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #102
                          Yup, my bad, that's what I meant.

                          But the growth was significantly slower.

                          However that still seems to substantiate Kidicious' argument over yours wouldn't you agree?
                          19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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                          • #103
                            See my DanS.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                            Comment

                            • #104
                              "Your money"? Money is a symbol: if tommorrow the US goernment decided to make maple leafs the currency of the US, then the savings of all those people who hoearded dollars would become worthless..and yet, we have to make a huge fuss about "our money"?

                              The value of your savings is based not only on your work, which is why you pay taxes. Without the system that the state creates in which you can work, you would have very little: well, you have to pay for that system's upkeep.
                              If you don't like reality, change it! me
                              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                              Comment

                              • #105
                                I think you are misunderstanding him - to me he seems to be saying that, other things being equal, higher productivity can result in lower hours or lower employment.

                                Now I'm sure you and he would be the first to agree that other things are almost never equal in economic terms - so with the underlying growth in the economy his argument results in lower than expected growth in total hours worked, not an actual fall per se.

                                BTW, how do you explain the drop in the 'trend' growth rate between the 1980's and 1990's?
                                19th Century Liberal, 21st Century European

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