Match the punishment with the crime

[The diplomat]

Re: Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by mrmitchell
(The husband, you see, only imagined getting ****ed by other babes (pr0n addiction). The woman actually did get ****ed by other dudes.)

Interesting. I'd probably look at it the other way. The wife should probably get the kids, because the porn addiction would be much more of a threat to the kids' upbringing than the adultery. The dad's porn addiction would seriously impede his ability to raise the kids in a healthy way.

[red_jon]

To be honest everyone in the town is better off dead.

[Verres]

The first two should not be punished by imprisonment, no matter how much money was involved. It was not a crime against a person, so it seems crazy that a loss of something material should incur the same penalty as a violent action against a person (even if the duration of the sentence is longer, the method is the same).

Number 3 is an awkward one. Not sure on that one.

4 is second degree murder, whether the couple are married or not. Definitely serious time in prison; your partner sleeping with someone else may break a marriage contract, so be officially illegal to some twisted minds...but you still cant get away with killing them- unfortunately.

I do not think there should be any legal consequences for 5. if the girl was stupid enough to drink that much then you can hardly blame the guy for taking advantage. With drugs...even so, its only rape. Really don't understand why the punishments for this are so harsh.

[MichaeltheGreat]

After all, if the *****es give you the opportunity, why not take it, right?

[red_jon]

On a serious note, I have friends who have been raped and sexually assaulted and it can ruin lives.

Still rehabilitation to avoid repeat offenses seems to be the best option, IMO.

[General Ludd]

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by The diplomat

1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

Make him return it. The boss has the power to fire him if he wants, and the crime would be put on record for future employers to see.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

Same as above.

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

No.

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

He is never allowed to drive a vehicle again.

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

Rehab.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

Jail time. Of course, my ideal jail system would not be anything at all like the ones we have. For one thing, no abstract dead lines such as 10 years or whatever. They would stay there indefinately untill they are rehabilitated. It also wouldn't be a "lock 'em up" mentality, it would be a seperate society - not torture or punishment.

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

No.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

Councilling/probation for the guy, rehab for the girl.

Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

Nope.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

Councilling for the both of them. As for the technicalities go; none of my buisness, they can sort it out themselves - it'll be a part of their councilling.

[oedo]

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

a fine will do. prison on no account. 1) & 2) shouldn´t be treated differently. as soon the person is caught, he has to pay back the money anyway. maybe 1) will more likely lose his job tan 2), but that´s all.

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

yep, the amount matters.

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

depends. no intention and culpable negligence, no punishment.

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

since driving drunk is at least culpable negligence, yes.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

5 years - life, depends.

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

no idea what a spouse is, but probably not.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

depends. if he forced or cheated her getting drunk, it´s rape.
if the girl got herself drunk or was drunk as usual, no punishment.

Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

yes. an additional punishment for owning and spreading illegal drugs.
if he cheats or forces her taking these drugs in order to rape her, it would be a very serious crime.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

depends what´s better for the children. if possible both should get custody.

I do not think there should be any legal consequences for 5. if the girl was stupid enough to drink that much then you can hardly blame the guy for taking advantage. With drugs...even so, its only rape. Really don't understand why the punishments for this are so harsh.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94285&highlight=prison+rape

[Verres]

Ok, I accept maybe some kind of punishment is in order for situation number 5. It can just get tricky as to what actually constitutes rape. You have to make some kind of distinction between a brutal attack that severely damages a person (mentally or physically) and someone just not really being in the mood or regretting it later or something.

[Drogue]

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by The diplomat
1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

Fine of ~$500

Originally posted by The diplomat
2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

If the boss wants to press charges, a fine of an extra $100.

Originally posted by The diplomat
Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

Yep, it would involve a lot more money. Depends how it was stolen, presuming some form of fraund (no-one got hurt, no breaking and entering) then I'd probably say pay the money back and 200 odd hours of community service.

Originally posted by The diplomat
3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

If it's their fault, then ban them from driving, and fine them for dangerous driving. If it's intentional, then vehicular manslaughter. If it's just an accident, say due to road conditions, then send them to counselling, they'll need it after that.

Originally posted by The diplomat
Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

Yes, then it would automatically be dangerous driving, possibly lower vehicular manslaughter (their concious actions caused the death, but they did not intend to kill them).

Originally posted by The diplomat
4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

Depends, if it's at the time they find out, as a crime of passion, then manslaughter and maybe 15 years jailtime. If it's premeditated, or not done while considered to be temporarily insane, then same as murder, either life inprisonment or DP.

Originally posted by The diplomat
Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

No, but it could be more likely that there is a more important relationship there, thus may be more likely to be temporarily insane (be more upset if spouse cheated than just someone you happen to be dating). But same as above. If its a crime of passion and coutns for temporary insanity, then manslaughter, if not, then murder.

Originally posted by The diplomat
5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

Consenting to sex is an act. If she consented, it's not rape. However forcing her to take alcohol against her will is aserious crime. If he's spiking her drink, he's committing a serious crime, and should be charged, but I don't think it classes as rape. If they just happen to be getting drunk, then there is no crime, and the girl needs to learn not to drink when she may act like that.

Originally posted by The diplomat
Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

Exactly the same as above, with the added punishment for dealing in illegal substances.

Originally posted by The diplomat
6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

Like MtG said, it's whoever can look after them best. The divorce should be granted, as that isn't the business of the state. I would probably favour the husbands side, since he did not actually break the marriage contract, whereas the wife did, but neither is totally to blame. IMHO it is something that happens occasionally, one gets obsessed with something, and the other looses interest. Splitting assets depends on their marriage contract.

[Drogue]

Re: Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by Osweld
Jail time. Of course, my ideal jail system would not be anything at all like the ones we have. For one thing, no abstract dead lines such as 10 years or whatever. They would stay there indefinately untill they are rehabilitated. It also wouldn't be a "lock 'em up" mentality, it would be a seperate society - not torture or punishment.

I like that idea, putting the emphasis on rehab rather than punishment.

Originally posted by oedo
no idea what a spouse is, but probably not.

A married partner, a husband or wife.

Originally posted by oedo
depends. if he forced or cheated her getting drunk, it´s rape.
if the girl got herself drunk or was drunk as usual, no punishment.

if he cheats or forces her taking these drugs in order to rape her, it would be a very serious crime.

More serious than with alcohol? Or is it just more serious because of the extra charges for illegal substances?

With the drink driving one, does it make it a worse punishment because of the death? Surely whether or not the person is injured or dies is a matter of chance, rather than the fault of the driver? I mean it is his fault, but no more than if he hit them and the other person did not die.

[MikeH]

1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

If it's a 1st offence: Fine to repay money + costs.
If it's to pay for drugs: Put them on a rehab program.
Serial offence: Councilling program.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

Too late. Same as above.

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

Yep. Jail time for that. $100 is petty crime, $100,000 is a major fraud.

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

Deliberate murder using the car: Life inprisonment
Total accident due to car failure: No punishment
Something in between, a punishment in between.

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

Yes, to me that's the same as intentional murder with the car. Life inprisonment no matter whether it was intentional or not.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

Life imprisonment

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

Of course not.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

He deliberately spikes her drinks: It's rape, 5-10 years
She gets drunk on her own: Her responsibility, no punishment.

Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

Same.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

Yes grant the divorce. Who gets the kids depends on the individual circumstances.


Doing this makes you realise how silly it is to have mandatory sentences, so much of these punishments would depend on the situation involved.

[lightblue]

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by The diplomat
If you were a judge and were allowed to give any punishment you wanted, what would you do for these crimes:

1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

Repay money, fine of $500 or 100 hours community service.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

See above. For 100k, fine would be $500k or 3 years prison.

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

If accidental (ie no speeding, dangerous driving etc but say due to mechanical failure), no punishment. Drunk drivers would be involuntary manslaughter imo (they don't set out to kill) so 7 years prison time.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

Life, read 20 years without parole.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

Depends if she took the alcohol/drugs voluntarily. Also in what kind of state she was when the act happened (taking advantage of someone who is passed out is different than going home with someone after you got drunk at a party). If voluntarily, no fine. Otherwise, rape, 10 years.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

Always grant divorce, not granting divorce would be impeding on personal liberties imo. As for kids, depends on other circumstances as well, but in theory I'd let the kids choose.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by MikeH
Doing this makes you realise how silly it is to have mandatory sentences, so much of these punishments would depend on the situation involved.

But then there would be the problem of individual judges having too much power. What sentance you get could depend on which judge you get, and what mood their in - it's a lottery. With mandatory sentances you have an accountable (since it's elected) body giving guidelines.

I agree with you, and I don't like mandatory sentances, but I don't know how to get over the problem of having too much power with the judges. Maybe a panel of judges for each case? Also, a single person may be swayed more by the perceived nastiess of a crime, and thus overreact. I do think they need more leeway, but judges are human, and so can be swayed by rguments that appeal to their emotions. It is quite a dilemma IMHO, I just wish we didn't have Blunkett deciding it.

[Ecthy]

5 years for stealing $100? Shi Huangdi gives evidence for the US turning fascist.

US
Shi Huangdi
EU
PRC
Ecthy

[MikeH]

You think that's bad? A couple of hundred years ago all those things would have been punished (in this country) by hanging unless you could get someone to sponsor you so that you could get transported to Australia for life instead.