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**Shi Huangdi** · August 31, 2003, 12:03

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

Maybe 1- 5 years? And an order to pay $100 in restitution.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

1-5 years

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

Yup, send them to jail for a long time..

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

There is not enough information here. Do we know whose fault the collision was? Was the collision intentional? Was the person who killed the other driver engaged in reckless or agressive driving?

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

Well in that case, Life in Prison W/O parole or the Death Penalty.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

Life without parole, or the death penalty depending on circumstances.

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

Absolutely not. Everyone has the same right to be safe in their daily lives.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

It depends. Did the girl consent to getting drunk? If some form of trickery or coercion was used to that effect, than it's rape and a penalty of 5 years or so would be appropriate. If the girl did give willful consent to becoming drunk, no penalty is appropriate.

Would thee punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

No.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

I would prefer they get marriage counseling and try to save their marriage first. If both parties really want a divorce, it should be granted. I would give joint custody, but have the father be the primary caregiver.

**GePap** · August 31, 2003, 12:25

In the first two cases, a fine equal to the amount stolen plus damages. Years i prison for the theft of 100 dollars to me is absurd. Obviously, the possible damages from the theft of 100,000 are much greater, so there some prison time might be in order: not that many years though, maybe 2-4, after all the money was restored and extra fines heaped on.

As for the car: if it is an accident, then it is no crime. As for driving drunk, that is careless disreard for human life, so you do have a serious felony: some level 0of manslaughter is in order.

The killing part is obviously murder: 2nd degree becuase it is a crime of passion. Whether they were married makes no difference.

On the sex, depends on the exact fact of the case: did the man purposely do something to impair the ability of the woman to be able to consent? if so, that's rape. What he used to impair her judgement matters only in how well you can make the case against the man.

As for the last one, if a couple want to divorce, that is their decision. Why is this set up with a list of crimes though?

**The diplomat** · August 31, 2003, 12:34

Originally posted by GePap
Why is this set up with a list of crimes though?

Obviously, it is not a crime. But I thought it might be an interesting judicial case, since many judges have to deal with divorces.

**Monk** · August 31, 2003, 12:38

Hey Shi,

Up to five years for minor theft? Are you, by any chance, a prison entrepreneur with hopes for an even better future?

Oh, and if ANY part of a marriage wants to trash it, of course they should be able to right now, no questions asked. And as for custody of children, it wouldn't matter much in the case who commited adultery, although the porn obsession thing might if it's a handicap on par with alcoholism etc.

**MichaeltheGreat** · August 31, 2003, 13:22

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by The diplomat
If you were a judge and were allowed to give any punishment you wanted, what would you do for these crimes:

1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

A couple of days in jail, or preferably, 48 hours over weekends on county road crews or other "unfun" but useful communinity service, plus fine of say 500, plus restitution.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

When caught by the boss? or by the police? If the first, probably not prosecutable as theft, due to difficulty in proving intent to permanently deprive the victim of the money (unauthorized borrowing and return aren't theft, and D argues that they were going to return the money anyway and that having it at the time confronted was evidence of that blah blah blah). If returned when caught by the cops, then scratch the restitution and knock off half the community service, plus reduce the fine by 100 as well.

Long prison sentences just aren't economical - we'd need to hugely increase our prison capacity and can't afford it.

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

It would depend on the circumstances (big thefts are often more civil dispute / accounting games or fraud and not outright larceny or robbery, so there's more of a range of possibilities here). In the absense of anything especially mitigating, I'd say 20 years or so, a la bank robbery.

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

First case, depends on the degree of negligence or recklessness involved, road conditions, and other facts of the case.

Second case, drunk driving is a deliberate act of reckless disregard, but it'd still depend on the degree of intoxication and the degree of contribution to the cause of the collision - if someone backs rapidly out of a driveway, from behind a van, at night on a poorly lit street, right into your path, being drunk is unacceptable, but not the major contributor to the resulting crash.

Depending on the degree of actual fault and other circumstances, plus priors, punishment could range from a fine, short jail sentence, suspension of license, and a very long probationary period on the license plus suspended prison time, out to 25 to life in cases of extreme recklessness or disregard.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

No. Sentence depends on circumstances, timing and manner of killing, could range from 15 years minimum to DP.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

If there was consent in use of the drugs, no. In either case, without forensic evidence, this is a tough one to prove, as it gets largely down to the victim's word against the perpetrator's.

If he drugged her without her knowledge or consent, 30 years to life if no priors and no proof that the drugging was intended to facilitate rape, life without parole if it is provable that there was intent to facilitate rape.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

The state has no business trying divorce cases for cause. The divorce should be automatic. Custody would depend on the total circumstances of the two parents, the age and number of the kids, and their capacity to express preference.

**Solly** · August 31, 2003, 13:30

With regards to the thread title, you have to take into account the probability that the criminal is caught by law enforcers. If it is low, ceteris paribus make a longer sentence.

**Shi Huangdi** · August 31, 2003, 13:39

"Up to five years for minor theft? Are you, by any chance, a prison entrepreneur with hopes for an even better future?"

This "minor theft" adds up. I don't have statstics on hand, but people stealing from their workplace leads to vast amounts of losses from business every year, causing some small businesses to close, and also further adding on to costs by making businesses invest in security to prevent theft.

**mrmitchell** · August 31, 2003, 13:43

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by The diplomat
1) a person steals 100$ from their boss.

$100 plus damages fine. $10 for wasting the courts' time.

2) a person steals 100$ from their boss but returns the money when they get caught.

Charge their boss $10 for filing the suit. The courts are already overloaded enough as it is, and if I can give ANY punishment, you better as hell believe I will

Would the punishment be different if the person stole 100,000$?

Return the money + damages if possible and 5 years in jail.

3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

There's not enough details. Was it wreckless driving? Was it intentional?

Would the punishment be different if the driver were drunk?

30+ years, or life.

4) a person intentionally kills their boyfriend/girlfriend because the other person was cheating on them.

30+ years. Someone cheating on you doesn't give you a right to kill them.

Would the punishment be different if the victim were a spouse?

No.

5) A guy gets a girl drunk and has sex with her. After the fact, she claims it was not consentual because she was drunk.

Did she consent to the drink? If she did, then no punishment for the guy. If the guy put rape drugs in her drink, or forced her in any point along the process, then prison starting with 1 year and add more based on when and how much force he used.

Would the punishment be different if hard drugs were involved?

The gal took them, then ****ed? If she consented to the hard drugs, then the guy gets off easy.

6) A couple is filing for divorce. The husband is upset because his wife committed adultery. The wife admits to the adultery but says that her husband's addiction to porn drove her to it. Would you grant the divorce? If so, who would get custody of the children?

Marriage counseling. If they won't take it or it isn't helping, divorce with the husband getting custody. (The husband, you see, only imagined getting ****ed by other babes (pr0n addiction). The woman actually did get ****ed by other dudes.)

EDIT: Or, whoever is "better" for the children. For example, if the husband was a multiple-times sex offender before getting married, the wife would probably get them. Once again, a lack of detail

**Monk** · August 31, 2003, 13:44

Shi,

If you imprisonate everybody who commits minor theft for years otherwise be spent on working or educating oneself, that would be pretty bad for business as well.

**red_jon** · August 31, 2003, 13:46

1) execution
2) execution
3) execution, though possibly released should the accident be deemed humerous.
4) execution, though possibly released should the partner be deemed unattractive.
5) execution for both parties involved
6) execution for all parties involved, including those within a 6 mile radius.

**The diplomat** · August 31, 2003, 13:56

Re: Match the punishment with the crime

Originally posted by The diplomat
3) a person is driving home and hits another car killing the person in the other car.

For clarification, it is completely accidental, not intentional in any way.

**red_jon** · August 31, 2003, 13:57

Bumpercars!

**Shi Huangdi** · August 31, 2003, 13:58

If the driver was not at fault for the accident, then of course he can't be punished. If the deceased was at fault, then the person who hit the other person should be able to recover the money needed for car repairs from the deceased's estate.

**red_jon** · August 31, 2003, 13:59

How much does a bullet and a bucket of soapy water cost compared to all that time in prison?

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