GW's Election... help please?

[Edan]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Also higher % than clinton got in 96.

Incorrect.

[GePap]

It doesn;t matter if Bush got more votes in 2000 than clinton ever did: Gore got even more and he isn;t president, and that is the point folks.

[Edan]

Originally posted by GePap
It doesn;t matter if Bush got more votes in 2000 than clinton ever did: Gore got even more and he isn;t president, and that is the point folks.

Except that legitimacy in the US electoral system doesn't stem from the popular vote, it stems from the electoral vote count - so it doesn't matter that Gore got more votes than Bush (unless one wants to argue that the system itself isn't legitimate.)

(And, as an aside, I think it's easy enough to predict that had the election results been switched, everyone would be swapping their partisan arguments..)

[GePap]

Originally posted by Edan

Except that legitimacy in the US electoral system doesn't stem from the popular vote, it stems from the electoral vote count - so it doesn't matter that Gore got more votes than Bush (unless one wants to argue that the system itself isn't legitimate.)

(And, as an aside, I think it's easy enough to predict that had the election results been switched, everyone would be swapping their partisan arguments..)

Since this is a debate, Draco could argue that the US system in itself is flawed since legitimacy in a democracy should some from s direct count of the popular vote and not from the system set up to maintain federalism in the US (as you said). And since Bush did win by the slimest margins in Florida, after many question, well...

[Japher]

Even so, as the electorial college stands, currently, he still had the electorial votes... that is the argument, not whether the system is flawed in it's attempts to transcend popular vote... which may or may not be the case

[Meldor]

Originally posted by GePap
It doesn;t matter if Bush got more votes in 2000 than clinton ever did: Gore got even more and he isn;t president, and that is the point folks.

Isn't it amazing that you argue that we shouldn't remember 9/11 in one thread and yet you refuse to get over the fact that the election didn't go your way the last time. Funny, the differences in what people deem to be important.

[chequita guevara]

Just go here.

https://www.gregpalast.com

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by GePap
It doesn;t matter if Bush got more votes in 2000 than clinton ever did: Gore got even more and he isn;t president, and that is the point folks.

It might matter to the debate judges.

[Drake Tungsten]

What did I tell you?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Edan
(And, as an aside, I think it's easy enough to predict that had the election results been switched, everyone would be swapping their partisan arguments..)

Not everyone. I'm sure I'd hate President Gore, just not quite as much as I loathe the usurper.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
What did I tell you?

Did I give out any "facts?"

[Edan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Not everyone.

OK, fair enough...

I'm sure I'd hate President Gore, just not quite as much as I loathe the usurper.

But would you be calling Gore the "usurper" if the situation were switched around?

[Drake Tungsten]

Did I give out any "facts?"

Yes, you did. Good show, che. I'm happy to see that my faith in you is not unwarranted.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Edan
But would you be calling Gore the "usurper" if the situation were switched around?

If the facts warrented it, yes. What offends me most about Bush isn't his politics, extreme as it might be. It's that he cheated the American people.

The vote is the most sacred and precious thing we have as citizens and Americans. People fught and died for generations so that women, and people of color, and white men without property could all have a say in how they were governed. And these people defecated on it, and smeared it around.

When I really get going about the fiasco in Florida, I go after both sides. Gore is every bit as guilty of these cheat as Bush. Remember, he thought so little of the right to vote, that he only demanded a recount in four counties, as if the votes people in the rest of the state didn't matter. They thought more of their reputation than protecting the integrity ofthe vote, so they didn't challenge almost three thousand clearly fraudulent mail-in votes, because they didn't want to be tarred as disrespecting military voters. He did not trust the American people, and I don't think that's a quality our leaders should have.

The truth of the matter is, in my mind, neither candidates showed themselves worthy of being President. Winning was more important to both of them than what the American people actually wanted. Would that I could, I should have seen both thrown into the Potomic and we hold a new election with new candidates.

The only reason I think Gore should be president is because, had the recount been done properly and completely and had there been no other fraud (the three thousand absentee ballots and the 99,000 voters who were illegally stripped of their right to vote), he would have had Florida. Hell, without the fraud, there would have been no need for a recount.

But I'd still hate him.

[Edan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The truth of the matter is, in my mind, neither candidates showed themselves worthy of being President. Winning was more important to both of them than what the American people actually wanted.

Well said.

(Though, as I said before, I doubt we ever could have found out what the American people actually wanted, with a margin of victory that small.)