Occupation death toll of U.S. troops equal to that of war

[MrFun]

GASP -- no one cares about the state that has the industrial-tech area known as Silicon Valley!?

[Defiant]

You laugh GePap, guess where their first choice to plant that bomb would be, hope you have your lead underwear on.

[GePap]

That's funny. OBL demands we convert to Islam in just about everyone of his tapes.

(I was thinking of rmoe to say, but really this is all I think this requires).

Terrorism goes before '91 when we were in Saudi, BTW, to defend MECCA against Saddam who surely would have gone there next.

We didn;t go in to defend Mecca (which sits close to the Red Sea): we went in to defend that arae aroudn the Gulf on which sits the majority of SA's (and the world's) oil supply. And yes, there was terrorism before '91: but we are not fighting all terrorism, only international islamist terrorism (no one was advocating invading Northern ireland to end terrorism there in the mid-80's, IIRC), speically those groups that aim to attack the US, groups that did NOT exist prior to '91.

If a nuke goes off in a city, Sava, I believe you will see an anexation of the ME and nobody will stand in our way, I believe we will colonize the ME and in the process just about kill everything in our path and start over.

Do you HONESTLY believe something so far-fetched and ridiculous?

[MikeH]

Originally posted by DanS


But they have oil there!

And weapons of mass destruction. ATTACK!

[GePap]

Originally posted by Defiant
You laugh GePap, guess where their first choice to plant that bomb would be, hope you have your lead underwear on.

The fact that I do happen to live in target number one and I am not running around screaming like a hedless chicken about the end of the world is why I laugh.

[Defiant]

"but wait, Bush says Al Qaeda and Saddam are friends... and another thing you don't realize... their culture and our culture are incompatible... either we go in an conquer them, destroy their culture and impose ours... or we try to co-exist with them. What we are doing now is a compromise of the two, and it won't work. It will only increase their hatred of us, and more Americans will die in the process. Frankly, I'd be more in support of Bush if he wanted to march armies across the MidEast and conquer them rather than pussyfoot around trying to give Halliburton some profits."

Creating a Democracy is trying to change their culture and freedom has a way of becoming very popular.
It boils down to FREEDOM vs. THEIR CULTURE. I have to believe freedom will win otherwise the second part of your paragrahp will come true, it's a fight against time.
At one time Japan's culture was very different from ours and now they are competing against us financially. We can change the ME, if time premits, but it comes down to, can we turn them before GePap is running around with his ass on fire.

[Sava]

Originally posted by GePap


The fact that I do happen to live in target number one and I am not running around screaming like a hedless chicken about the end of the world is why I laugh.

just on a side note... I've noticed that most pro-war people and people who have taken the terror attacks more personally are people from rural areas which have no chance in hell of getting attacked by terrorists.

and likewise... IIRC, most New Yorkers are liberal and were against the war in Iraq. I guess they think there should be proof of a Saddam connection to 9-11 before stirring up a hornet's nest in Iraq.

[Defiant]

"Do you HONESTLY believe something so far-fetched and ridiculous?"

YES because it is a very real possibility.

In '91, Saddam's troops were on the border of Saudi, what do you think he was going to do, shake hands, he is the #1 muslim killer in the ME, do really think he gives a rat's ass about mecca, he would have taken the oil and turn mecca into one of his palaces. C'mon!

[Sava]

Creating a Democracy is trying to change their culture and freedom has a way of becoming very popular.
It boils down to FREEDOM vs. THEIR CULTURE. I have to believe freedom will win otherwise the second part of your paragrahp will come true, it's a fight against time.
At one time Japan's culture was very different from ours and now they are competing against us financially. We can change the ME, if time premits, but it comes down to, can we turn them before GePap is running around with his ass on fire.

Do you realize what we are trying to do? We are trying to take a nation state (created by the British) that is comprised of distinctly different ethnic and extremely secular peoples that don't like each other... and try and get them to believe in our way of life (freedom, democracy) when for thousands of years, their culture has been about the opposite of this... and in addition... the only way they have not slaughtered each other in civil wars (like in the Balkans) is by having a murderous and oppressive dictator with chemical weapons ruling with an iron fist...

frankly... I wouldn't bet on the US succeeding...

[Defiant]

"just on a side note... I've noticed that most pro-war people and people who have taken the terror attacks more personally are people from rural areas which have no chance in hell of getting attacked by terrorists. "

You really need to talk with Ruffhaus who lives in DC, he literally wanted to light them up in the ME, the plane that hit the pentagon, went right past his wife's office. BTW if visit Chicago alot and lived there, this has nothing to do with rural vs urban.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I can understand misfires but how do you die while cleaning your rifle? Do you stab yourself in the eye with the cleaning rod?

Uhh, we have more than rifles.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Defiant
"Do you HONESTLY believe something so far-fetched and ridiculous?"

YES because it is a very real possibility.

In '91, Saddam's troops were on the border of Saudi, what do you think he was going to do, shake hands, he is the #1 muslim killer in the ME, do really think he gives a rat's ass about mecca, he would have taken the oil and turn mecca into one of his palaces. C'mon!

You do realize most of the Muslim world KNOWS that the US was the one who supplied him with weapons and money for a decade, right? Without US support in the 80's (weapons, and components for WMD programs) Saddam most likely would have been toast. Who do you think the Muslim world blames for Saddam's rise to power?

[MrFun]

I think someone should poke Sava with a cleaning rod . . . . .

[Defiant]

"Do you realize what we are trying to do? We are trying to take a nation state (created by the British) that is comprised of distinctly different ethnic and extremely secular peoples that don't like each other... and try and get them to believe in our way of life (freedom, democracy) when for thousands of years, their culture has been about the opposite of this... and in addition... the only way they have not slaughtered each other in civil wars (like in the Balkans) is by having a murderous and oppressive dictator with chemical weapons ruling with an iron fist...

frankly... I wouldn't bet on the US succeeding"

There is no country more diverse than this country, we have people from all over here, that includes about 3 million muslims, if we can make it work, it can work there. Again it's about freedom, you are right, they have been fighting for 1000's of years, we have to put a stop to it, because it is now in our backdoor.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Defiant
"Do you HONESTLY believe something so far-fetched and ridiculous?"

YES because it is a very real possibility.

In '91, Saddam's troops were on the border of Saudi, what do you think he was going to do, shake hands, he is the #1 muslim killer in the ME, do really think he gives a rat's ass about mecca, he would have taken the oil and turn mecca into one of his palaces. C'mon!

No, when I asked if you believed something so ridiculous, the question was about your little "prediction" about what would happen if terrorist used nuclear weapons.

As for Saddam an '91: I am skeptical if he would have made a grab for SA. Kuwait was easy, but SA would not be for a whole host of reasons. Even if he had invaded SA, he would not have moved to annex the whole area, anymore than he meant to Annex all of Iran when he invaded it. We did not go in to protect Mecca or Medina, but the small area of SA near the gulf with the oil.

And the porblem was not the war itself, but the aftermath of the war, and our support for the current Saudi Regime. After all, it was the sauds who invited the US in: People like Osama know that.