pedophile Priest Shanked!!!

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Spiffor
RJ: so, in the end, our sins are whitewashed and we go to heaven if we accept Jesus sacrifice ? Sounds quite similar to what I said (the main difference being that you switched "believing in God" with "believing in Jesus as our saviour")

*sigh* No they are not 'whitewashed' because the punishment has been 'paid' for by Christ's blood. Without Christ, we are all going to hell.

[Sava]

Without Christ, we are all going to hell.

if God is going to judge me on what Adam and Eve did rather than what I have done in my life then I want to go to hell... for such a god is not fair and good and does not deserve to be worshipped.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
*sigh* No they are not 'whitewashed' because the punishment has been 'paid' for by Christ's blood. Without Christ, we are all going to hell.

Ok, not "whitewashed" then. Merely, "all forgiven because someone paid your debt".

Well, in the end that's the same: for the last 2000 years, if you believe in Jesus, you have a straight out ticket to heaven no matter what you have done during your mortal life. If not, that's hell without a doubt.

[Sava]

Spiffor:

Of all the major religions that share roots with Judaism (Islam and Christianity) Judaism makes the most sense. In Christianity (according to most) you go to heaven because of Jesus and aren't held accountable for your sins. In Islam, you can kill innocent people in the name of Allah and go to paradise.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Ok, not "whitewashed" then. Merely, "all forgiven because someone paid your debt".

Fair enough.

Well, in the end that's the same: for the last 2000 years, if you believe in Jesus, you have a straight out ticket to heaven no matter what you have done during your mortal life. If not, that's hell without a doubt.

You make the 'believe' bit sound easy. I don't think it is. And anyway, it isn't just believing - I am sure satan 'believes' too

And I think Sava's point is a good one (almost). Many people believe in God but still reject him (like this priest seems to do). The choice to go to hell is no-one's but your own. Good luck Sava.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sava
Of all the major religions that share roots with Judaism (Islam and Christianity) Judaism makes the most sense. In Christianity (according to most) you go to heaven because of Jesus and aren't held accountable for your sins. In Islam, you can kill innocent people in the name of Allah and go to paradise.

Well, it's not like the old Testament doesn't encourage you to genocide your neighbours though. However, I admit I don't know if it gives promises for the afterlife if you kill a Babylonian.

[Sava]

And I think Sava's point is a good one (almost). Many people believe in God but still reject him (like this priest seems to do). The choice to go to hell is no-one's but your own.

But that's the thing... I don't believe a fair and good God would send good people to hell just for not believing in the myth of his son... nor would he allow evil people into hell just because they do believe. That's not good or fair. And if God isn't good or fair, I won't worship or praise him.

Personally, I think religion might be a test from God... He's weeding out the mindless followers.

[Sava]

However, I admit I don't know if it gives promises for the afterlife if you kill a Babylonian.

Maybe that's the motive of the Iraq War.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Well, it's not like the old Testament doesn't encourage you to genocide your neighbours though. However, I admit I don't know if it gives promises for the afterlife if you kill a Babylonian.

Not quite a Babylonian but....

Exodus 32:27

He said to them, "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, 'Every man {of you} put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor."

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Sava
That's not good or fair. And if God isn't good or fair, I won't worship or praise him.

What is your definition of good and fair? And why should it be any more valid than mine (or for that matter, that of a pedophile priest)?

[Sava]

I guess my biggest complaint against Christians is that they won't admit the Bible is the product of man. Sorry, but religion is the creation of man... not a God.

I can't comment on the existence of a higher power. The concept doesn't make much sense, but I can't rule it out. That's why I don't bother with all that bull****. It's highly unlikely that Christianity is the one true religion. And it's pointless to waste your life searching for truth. Either you will learn about it when you die, or you won't. And if you don't, it won't matter... because your dead.

[Sava]

What is your definition of good and fair?

Holding people accountable for their sins, regardless of faith. If God is an all-powerful being, my devotion to him is irrelevant. And if he's some sort of sociopath that requires my faith, then he's not good and fair. It's that simple.

And why should it be any more valid than mine (or for that matter, that of a pedophile priest)?

in the end, it's me and God... only my principles will matter...

[Rogan Josh]

I just noticed, that Lincon put it in another thread much more eloquently than I did:

Originally posted by Lincoln
To be a follower of Jesus it is necessary to actually do what he said. Yes, salvation is a free gift of grace but the trampling of that grace under foot by those who should be teaching it by example is a grievous sin.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Sava
Holding people accountable for their sins, regardless of faith.

But how do you define a sin?

[Shi Huangdi]

"I guess my biggest complaint against Christians is that they won't admit the Bible is the product of man. Sorry, but religion is the creation of man... not a God."

Nobody except for the most fundamentalist believes that God transcribed the bible to us. Most Christians believe the bible was produced by man under some degree of divine inspiration.

"But that's the thing... I don't believe a fair and good God would send good people to hell just for not believing in the myth of his son... nor would he allow evil people into hell just because they do believe. That's not good or fair. And if God isn't good or fair, I won't worship or praise him. "

Again, not all Christians are hard-line Protestants...