Alabama Supreme Court

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by The diplomat


It is outside the court building, not in the court room!

A VERY minor difference considering the damn thing is monolithic in size.

[Berzerker]

MtG -

Read the first amendment. Even more, some Christian groups would consider the monument to be a graven image, in violation of the commandments themselves.

Yup.

What part of "no law" don't you understand.

What law was passed?

Albert -

but most of the others such as coveting your neighbour's possessions, etc. can translate to actual crimes if acted upon... the commandments serve as a guide so that if you follow them, you won't find yourself guilty of some crime in the courtroom

Yes, but we don't convict people of coveting, just stealing. Like I said, most of the commandmants aren't even a legal basis for our system or even the system of the Founders. In fact, I'd argue the first (or first 2) are in direct contradiction of our legal code. Thou shall have no other God before me...

Asher -

ROTFLMAO

Diplomat is right, there are times when the only moral avenue is to resist the law and I'm sure we can think of quite a few examples. The Underground Railroad, the Nazis, Solsinitzin in the USSR, Iraqis fighting Saddam, etc...

Btw, I believe Moore paid for this himself, not the taxpayers.

[Asher]

diplomat is right, there are times when the only moral avenue

I think it's fairly ridiculous to assume he asked on moral grounds -- everybody has their own morals.

I think it's clear he was asking on some kind of legal grounds, that it'd be okay to not obey a law because it's "unjust" in your eyes, as a Judge even.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Very nice piece of granite though.

[mrmitchell]

IIRC, the Supreme Court is the highest order of the Man once a law or action's constitutionality is challenged...this would mean the government would have to do what they say, right?

No. There's precedent for disregarding justice; Andrew Jackson ignored the Supreme Court's decision and forced the relocation of the Cherokee anyways. However, it would be very neat to see federal troops come in and remove that jackass's ****ing monument.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
what planet do these people come from that they whine and moan about the existance of THE moral/law code of the western world?

What planet do you come from wherein one thinks the Ten Commandments are the basis of western law? They certainly are not the sole basis, and I'd argue not even the most important.

Our code of law is derived from the Anglo-Saxon code, and that was one predominately of pagan and Roman origin, not Judeo-Christian. That's why only a few of the Ten Commandments are actually enshrined in the law, and those that are can be found in practically every non-Western culture as well (not murdering, not stealing), since they just make common sense.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Berzerker
What law was passed?

Administrative actions by officials acting in their capacity as such are "laws" within the meaning applied in constitutional practice.

[Asher]

Does that mean it's legal, mrmitchell?

His question is really stupid no matter how I look at it.

Legally, I don't think the Judge can disobey his superiors even if he thinks it's "unjust".

Other than that, why ask?? People will do as they want, it's not like there's some barrier in the metaphysical world that will stop you from disobeying a law.

[molly bloom]

The judge erected the monument, covertly, and without the knowledge of his other justices. It stands within the footprint of the courthouse, so is presumably within the precincts of a federal building. Lawyers have to walk past it to get into the courthouse.

Is it a legal text or a religious, sacred text?

'That question was put to rest by the nation's highest court in a 1980 Supreme Court ruling that found the Ten Commandments is "undeniably a sacred text." Therefore, the court ruled, posting it on public buildings violates the separation of church and state.'

Proponents describe the Commandments as an important but benign acknowledgement of the origins of universal law. But a close reading suggests they're largely concerned with religion:

• The First Commandment to most Christians — and the Second to Jews — is "thou shalt have no other God before me," a religious doctrine subscribed to by many Americans, but certainly not all.

• More than half of the Commandments' biblical text is about religious observance: no idolatry, no misuse of the Lord's name and no work on the Sabbath, for example.

http://www.usatoday.com/advertising/orbitz/orbitz-window.htm

'Inscribed across the top of the monument is the King James translation of the commandments. The court’s opinion took special note that different religious traditions—including different traditions within Christianity itself—have different ways of translating and arranging the Exodus passages from which the commandments are drawn. Therefore, the court said, it was difficult to view the sculpture as anything but an endorsement of Protestant Christianity.'

http://www.westernrecorder.org/wr/wrsite.nsf/stories/200327-monument

[Berzerker]

Jac -

A VERY minor difference considering the damn thing is monolithic in size

Stonehenge is monolithic, not this piece of stone. But so nice to see you accept my correction with such grace.

Asher -

I think it's fairly ridiculous to assume he asked on moral grounds -- everybody has their own morals.

Then what was his basis?

I think it's clear he was asking on some kind of legal grounds, that it'd be okay to not obey a law because it's "unjust" in your eyes, as a Judge even.

Injustices are morally neutral?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Then what was his basis?

Sounds to me like he was looking for a legal out, like the Notwithstanding clause in Canada that allows provinces to ignore whatever the hell a court says.

[mrmitchell]

Does that mean it's legal, mrmitchell?

Wha? I'm all for taking the fool's monument down. It's disrespectful to the Courts to act like that (how he is), and even if he doesn't agree with the Supreme decision, he should still take it down.

It's like voicing your dislike of a leader. You've got to go by certain guidelines. Demonstrations, written material, etc. are okay. Walking up to him and saying "You suck" is disrespecting the leader. Even if you don't like him, he (usually) is still a human being that deserves a little respect. Likewise, in this case, the Alabama judge has used all his options and failed, so he should get the thing out of there.

[Berzerker]

Molly -

The judge erected the monument, covertly, and without the knowledge of his other justices.

I can't speak to the latter, but it wasn't installed "covertly". The media mis-characterised that aspect of the story. The stone was to be placed just after business hours to avoid interfering with the usual business traffic, but the company delivering the stone was ~3 hours late delivering it so it wasn't placed until around 9 pm.

[Odin]

As an atheist, I wish I cold smack that judge so hard for his bigotry. What's worse is that many people support him. Thomas Jefferson would be appalled at this violation of the 1st Amendment. Jefferson's ue of "Creator" instead of "God" is a reflection of him as a deist and that all religions have a creation myth, so for the Ancient Greeks that would be the titan Prometheus. There were no large groups of athiests untill the Start of Marxism, So the use of the term "creator" should not bo taken so hard. In this day and age it is a whole different story; And people who know my low opinion of creationists know that I am LAUGHING at Diplomat right now.

Moore can keep that monolithic chunk of granite is his bedroom if he likes it so much.

[SpencerH]

Re: Alabama Supreme Court

Originally posted by Guynemer

A 2.5 ton monument to the Ten Commandments sitting in the rotunda of the state Supreme Court? Who the hell does this guy think he is?

Hes the elected chief justice of the Alabama supreme court.

It's about time we drag this guy into the 20th century, kicking and screaming.

Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself.