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Why do Protestants believe in the Bible (not a troll)
A more interesting question is why prots accept the teachings of the Church fathers regarding the Bible, but not the teachings based on tradition.
This sets protestantism apart from the schismatics.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
Most likely the Protestants didn't add the other Gospels back in because they didn't know they existed. We got lucky and someone found the "gnostic" gospels in an urn in the desert (IIRC). It's the same reason why the New Testiment is translated from the Greek instead of the original Aramaic, they didn't have any existing copies.
What I find more curious is why the news discoveries haven't lead to a sea-change in Protestantism.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We got lucky and someone found the "gnostic" gospels in an urn in the desert (IIRC). It's the same reason why the New Testiment is translated from the Greek instead of the original Aramaic, they didn't have any existing copies.
The "gnostic" gospels are not trustworthy testimonies. The 4 Gospels, Mark, Luke, John and Matthew, are trustworthy accounts.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
And why should we consider Mark Luke John and Matthew trustworthy?
Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy. We've got both kinds
Originally posted by The diplomat
The "gnostic" gospels are not trustworthy testimonies. The 4 Gospels, Mark, Luke, John and Matthew, are trustworthy accounts.
Yup, the bible is COMPLETELY true in every aspect...
The reason those four were in and the others were out is those are the only ones that mention Jeshua's divinity.
The bigger point is, if the Catholic Church was untrustworthy, then why trust it's decision on what to include and exclude?
Another thing I'm curious about is why the Protestants didn't look to Constantinople for spiritual guidance, or the Nestorians.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
protestantism is all about being independent (thinking it yuor own way)
so it would make sense for the new discoveries to have a high impact on some people and no impact on others
which is what hsa occured
Jon Miller
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Gah. The new Testament was standardized by the first ecumenical council in the time of Constantine, well into the age of elaborate ceremony. As such it is an "institution of men," or whatever slur the protestants are using these days.
The Gospel of Thomas was eliminated as gnostic and not especially valuable in the sense of genuine religious guidance. The others weren't put in because they were deemed unnecessary. The NT was never meant to be the be-all and end-all of religious scripture. It was and is the bare-bones essentials that every Christian should have access to. It isn't the only thing needed by the Christian church any more than a book of regulations is all the Marines need to stay in fighting shape.
And stop calling the early church Catholic. There were five great Churches in ancient Christianity, and Rome, which went on to become the RCC, was only one of them. Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople and Jerusalem were actually *much* larger than Rome in those days, especially put together. And the supremacy of Rome thing doesn't count either; they were only "first among equals," that is to say given greater respect but no real authority, and the split between east and west happened when they got grabby for more. That's our version of the story. History textbooks are based on the writings of pro-catholic historians.
Originally posted by MikeH
And why should we consider Mark Luke John and Matthew trustworthy?
Because they were eye witnesses to what Jesus said and did.
The "gnostic" gospels are not trustworthy, because their sources are not reliable, and because they invent stuff about Jesus and teach unchristian doctrines. For example, the gnostic gospels claim that Jesus said that women must become male in order to enter the kindgom of God. That claim is clearly preposterous and unchristian. Based on the 4 Gospels, we know that Jesus never said anything like that.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
Elok - fair enough about my characterization of the first Church(es), but the larger point about the NT itself being a creation of man is what I'm getting at. It is worth remembering that some of the non-canonical Gospels were left out because they were considered heretical -- by hair-splitting Byzantine-era theologians, no less. Why should modern Christians believe them?
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
Because they were eye witnesses to what Jesus said and did.
The "gnostic" gospels are not trustworthy, because their sources are not reliable, and because they invent stuff about Jesus and teach unchristian doctrines. For example, the gnostic gospels claim that Jesus said that women must become male in order to enter the kindgom of God. That claim is clearly preposterous and unchristian. Based on the 4 Gospels, we know that Jesus never said anything like that.
Clearly, you have never attempted to study the Gnostic gospels,
Because they were eye witnesses to what Jesus said and did.
The "gnostic" gospels are not trustworthy, because their sources are not reliable, and because they invent stuff about Jesus and teach unchristian doctrines. For example, the gnostic gospels claim that Jesus said that women must become male in order to enter the kindgom of God. That claim is clearly preposterous and unchristian. Based on the 4 Gospels, we know that Jesus never said anything like that.
Well, IIRC we don't have any copies of the Canonical Gospels that date back as far as the time of Christ, so we don't really know that. Would you trust Boswell's Life of Johnson as an accurate life of Samuel Johnson (1704-1784) if we didn't have any copies of the text from before 1993?
Beyond that, though, there's a body of research that suggests that the names of the canonical gospels were only attached later.
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
And here is a direct quote from the gnostic gospels:
Simon Peter said to them [the disciples]: 'Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of Life.' Jesus said, 'I myself shall lead her, in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male win enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
The gnostic gospels are unchristian because they completely distort what Jesus taught. That is fact!
Last edited by The diplomat; August 20, 2003, 13:33.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
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