Creationism.

[Combat Ingrid]

When the sun falls down towards the sea at night, there is a guy with a boat that catches it and rows it over to another part of the horizon where it can rise again the next morning. So it actually never falls down into the ocean.

Just in case you wondered

[Odin]

Originally posted by Spiffor
There's another thing I wonder : why do the creationists reject the idea of evolution at all ? What is opposite to their faith to think that God created everything, and let it evolve since ? I don't see anything heretic in that belief...

Christians believe humans are the center of creation, since evolution has no predetermined direction, humans are no different then any living thing, that is what has ticked of creationists since Darwin. We are part of the living world, not above it.

[FrustratedPoet]

since evolution has no predetermined direction

Says who? Religious types could easily claim that the whole history of evolution has been according to some kind of master plan that God has. It wouldn't be any more ridiculous to claim that than to claim that creationism is the truth.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

Creationism is a good example of mans need to rationalize what he does not understand into concepts he is familiar with and can control.

Delete "Creationism" and add "Evolution" and that sentence would have equal validity.

And the attempt is vain, not vein.

But all attempts are not equal.

Evolutionary biology is a scientific endeavor, and the fruits of that science have led to a dramatic increase in human knowledge. To say pursuing evolution is vain is simply wrong, since Darwinian mechanics have proven incredibly useful in a plethora of areas, including computer science, medicine and engineering. An abundant amount of science--overwhelming, in fact--has shown evolution to be incontrovertible fact.

Creationism is an unsubstantiated metaphysical belief. That's about all one needs say.

[C0ckney]

FP, don't respond to odin as if he has something to say, it only encourages him

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

since evolution has no predetermined direction

Says who?

Scientists, that's who. Evolution is random genetic mutation + natural selection. There's no evidence there is any sort of directive force behind evolution, and there are plenty of examples showing how it seems to work contrary to a notion of predetermined direction. Why else would species evolve body parts and then devolve them over time? Intelligent design has to explain why the vast majority of biological functions that have arisen through genetic mutation have been a waste of time and energy before one can seriously consider the concept of direction to evolution.

[FrustratedPoet]

Scientists, that's who.

Scientists say a lot of things, and a great deal of it is contradictory. Just like you can find a passage in the Bible to support almost any claim about Christianity you can find some scientific study that claims that pretty much anything as fact. "Because scientists say so" isn't a lot better than "Because God says so".

[Jac de Molay]

Just like you can find a passage in the Bible to support almost any claim about Christianity you can find some scientific study that claims that pretty much anything as fact.

In the real, peer-reviewed science of today, that is simply not true. Inferences can be made from observing physical phenomena, but no scientist worth his salt would ever attempt to prove anything as fact based on inconsistent/absent evidence. That's not science.

[Spiffor]

To defend FP, you don't have to be a creationist to think that evolutionism is an abstract simplification of reality for us to understand it. Heck, it is the very endeavour of science !

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
"Because scientists say so" isn't a lot better than "Because God says so".

You'll note that wasn't all I said, as I pointed out why scientists say so, which is because all of the evidence we have points to undirected evolutionary change, and nothing indicates Intelligent Design. So it is a lot better, since it relies on scientific observation rather than a supernatural BAM.

Science is falsifiable and subject to peer review, so saying science can support anything is absurd. Scientists can theorize almost anything, but when it comes to evidence and support, it's a different story.

The notion that someone just came along and "invented" evolution as more plausible explanation than God is absurd as well, and betrays an utter lack of knowledge as to how Darwin (originally a Creationist) came to his conclusions.

[yavoon]

I'm no historian, but this is the ripest troll thread I've ever encountered.

[FrustratedPoet]

I'm quite aware of how Darwin came to his conclusions. Origin of the Species is a fascinating book, but I haven't got around to reading any of his other works in detail yet.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
I'm no historian, but this is the ripest troll thread I've ever encountered.

After some thought, I must say that's right. I've seen threads degenrating into worse trollfests, but the starting post of this one was impressive

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by yavoon
I'm no historian, but this is the ripest troll thread I've ever encountered.

Oh it's good, but we've had better ones. You need to pay closer attention.

[Odin]

Nothing in Biology makes sense unless in the light of evolution.